Someone said that Jesus used marijuana; that the anointing oil contained cannabis. Interesting.
Many who believe this cite the work of Dr. Sula Benet, an etymologist from Poland. In 1936 she concluded that the Hebrew words “q’nah-bosem” (Exodus 30:23) were etymologically related to “cannabis” and then reached the further conclusion that the anointing oil included marijuana. She noted the similarities with words from other Middle Eastern language groups. She further noted that the word could be used to reference a reed plant or a hemp plant, but she reached the definite conclusion that in the Exodus passage it meant the hemp plant.
We find Benet’s arguments weak. Her logic fails in many areas.
We believe there are two fundamentals approaches to Scripture. One is to look for support for what you already believe. The other is to seek to find in Scripture how we should be changed. Those who use this second approach in their reading of the Bible may find this article of interest.
Read our article and tell us what you think.
I appreciate this article so much. I have a lot of friends who try to justify marijuana by the Bible, and I was searching for evidence to argue with them. It makes me so angry when people do this…hypocrisy is keeping others from knowing the truth.
Actually check below. what keeps people from the truth is when God’s people don’t love and accept eachother as they are where they are as Messiah does. They will know you are My followers how? Cause you don’t use cannabis…wait that is not how that scripture goes…if you judge your brothers and sisters instead of loving them through disagreements that is waaaaay worse than smoking a doob…not advocating smoking doobs just trying to get us to look at ourselves. Also not advocating the acceptance of clear sin but as far as I know the Jewish believers put these burdens on us Acts 15:29 abstain from things sacrificed to idols from blood and from things strangled and from sexual immorality. I get a kick out of people who view pornography, I used to be one of them, who go around brow beating the cannabis users as degenerates when they are in CLEAR violation and the doob users, according to this scripture, not so much.
I am not a Christian nor have i researched the bible heavily, regarding this matter or any other. But i have been made aware of the arguments from both sides regarding Cannabis in the bible. Although there is still debate about whether Cannabis is specifically mentioned in the bible, as Kaneh Bosm. The evidence supporting the view that Kaneh Bosm means Cannabis is far more convincing than the arguments that is was correctly translated into Calamus. First of all, before i even address the Kaneh Bosm issue, i would like to point out to everyone here who referred to Cannabis as an illegal drug, is that up until 1930’s Cannabis was not illegal, nor was it considered a drug. It was and is a natural, non toxic, plant/herb with countless medical properties. The only passage in the bible, that i found, that prohibits drug use specifically refers to Pharma or Sorcery as man made drugs and even states the reason why we should not use pharmaceutical drugs is because God has created all we need in the herbs and plants he created. So it is ironic to me that so many christians are happy to class a natural plant in it’s natural state as a “drug”, while happy to tolerate man made and man manipulated drugs (not to mention highly toxic drugs) just because they are deemed legal by the laws of men. Even if you don’t believe that Cannabis was specifically mentioned in the bible, the fact remains that Cannabis is a natural (creation of God if you like) plant that has never caused a death, or any other kind of detrimental effect to human health. Is cannabis not a creation of God? Is it not the belief of Christians that God has “given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree that has fruit yielding seed, it shall be food for you” Genesis 1:29. Or do you think that this particular passage meant to exclude Cannabis? Also Kaneh Bosm has no linguistic links to Calamus, a point this article neglects to mention. So it seems to me that linking Calamus to Kaneh Bosm involves more of a leap than linking Kaneh Bosm to Cannabis. There is much evidence that Kaneh Bosm does indeed mean cannabis, and although i am personally wary of falling into the trap of reading/seeing what i want to see, just because it fits with my pre convieved views. In addition to the linguistic connections between Kaneh Bosm and Cannabis, the descriptions of the plant and it’s effects fit perfectly with the Cannabis/Hemp plant, yet makes almost no sense when you try to connect it with Calamus. But i understand that many Christians reading this will dismiss it as the words of someone who wishes to blindly promote cannabis. I ask you to look at yourselves, and ask if you are not alliowing yourself to be willfully ignorant and willfully blind to the truth. Even if cannabis is not specifically mentioned in the bible, it is a natural plant, a creation of God and we have allowed wicked men, motivated by greed to outlaw a gift from God, while they force us to consume toxic man made concoctions.
It was and is a natural, non toxic, plant/herb with countless medical properties.
Countless medical properties? What are they? And the list should be huge, seeing as the properties are countless. Did you know that smoking marijuana increases the possibility of testicular cancer?
http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pot/a/testicular.htm
Did you know that smoking marijuana may cause cancer?
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090615095940.htm
Did you know that long-term use of marijuana negatively affects cognitive function?
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/11/101116104202.htm
Did you know that marijuana smoke contains higher levels of certain poisons than cigarette smoke?
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071217110328.htm
Anyway, I don’t see marijuana as non-toxic, as you do.
. . . the fact remains that Cannabis is a natural (creation of God if you like) plant that has never caused a death, or any other kind of detrimental effect to human health. Is cannabis not a creation of God?
Yes, it’s a fact that God created cannabis and He also created hemlock. Do you eat hemlock? Do you smoke hemlock? It’s natural! So why don’t you eat it or smoke it? And marijuana has never caused a death or any other health problem for anyone? Are you serious? Check out the research on the negative health effects of the drug. It has many negative short-term effects as well as a variety of long-term effects. And in my own experience, I’ve seen people get in wrecks as a result of driving while high. I’ve seen that multiple times. So to say marijuana has never had a negative physical effect on anyone, ever–well, that’s a completely ridiculous statement.
Umm your sources are outdated, it not only does not cause ANY form of cancer, but has actually been found to inhibit cancer. Little more research, less “I know because I believe I’m right” please!
Ok, first off i want to say marijuana is a blessing. Not only does it help with many problems we face daily it is a great way to relax after a hard day of work. I’ve done my research, in 10,000 on record no one has ever died from consuming marijuana. They give this lovely plant (not Drug) to people with cancer to help them with eating. It helps depression, headaches, and many more issues to name. Basically im saying for u to sit there and say it is bad, is only because it is illegal. People viewed alcohol the same way when it was in prohibiton. They say it kills brain cells? Well actully they tested on monkeys using mask and they suffocated them. When suffocation takes place, brain cells are killed. They smoke DID NOT cause that. They said it causes cancer? Like Bill said, it actully helps in not getting it. If you would do some research “Me” and stop listening to things others say maybe you would have some knowledge. Note, im only 19, and I was raised to believe it was bad. After using and feeling the healing power, i did research to note that it is perfectly safe. Now my message to the ones reading, dont even click the links “me” Posted. Get your bible and read, and also look into watching a facts documentary and not a opinion based one, try it for yourself and injoy the “Gift from God”
“In 10,000 on record no one has ever died from consuming marijuana.”
What are you trying to say?
“They said it causes cancer? Like Bill said, it actully helps in not getting it.”
Check this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2516340/ Read the following quote from the discussion portion of the case study.
These studies, and our own, highlight the difficulties inherent in undertaking epidemiological research of the effects of cannabis. While it is important to interpret the findings in the context of these limitations, the balance of evidence would suggest a positive association between cannabis and lung cancer.
“After using and feeling the healing power . . .”
You mean the intoxicating power and the nice feeling that all your problems are gone . . .
“Now my message to the ones reading, dont even click the links ‘me’ Posted.”
So, your message to those interested in finding out the truth is, “Don’t even do your own research. Read the Bible, which says nothing about marijuana, and then make your decision.” I would agree with one part of your advice. Read the Bible. Find out what it says. Find out what it says about Jesus Christ. Make Him the focus of your attention. When you try to convince someone of healing power, convince them to get to know the Jesus who truly heals. Forget the temptation to give in to the pull of addictive, illegal drugs and seek after the One who will fulfill the deepest desires of your heart.
http://naturalsociety.com/marijuana-use-may-positively-impact-lungs/
http://healthland.time.com/2012/05/30/
marijuana-compound-treats-schizophrenia-with-few-side-effects-clinical-trial/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/03/22/marijuana-fights-aids_n_1373224.html
All these positive effects plus others (another which basically states it can shrink tumors) have been proven countless times
Before.
Marijuanas been given a a bad name for the past 60 70 years so pharma companies can profit.
Don’t get me wrong im not saying theres no bad effects what so ever, any substance can have adverse effects if abused but the use of it in comparisonwith the effects of alcohol it is 100% safer and someone who’s high can act as a normal person in society whereas someone who is drunk cannot and ill gladly state this as a fact.
There’s also the fact that the use of hemp.dates back thousands of years for hundreds of different things.
AMEN!!!!!
Ask 100 heroin users if they used cannabis and they’ll all tell you yes. Ask 100 random canabis users if they ever used heroin and you’ll probably get 2 out of 100. So statistics are Very unreliable. The gov chose to ask the druggies about canabis so it gives the right results. Ask 100 uni lecturers if they used either and base your results, and laws on the real results. As for cancer, that might have something to do with the tobacco, no
Oh and the case study, it’s a .gov site. That’s the answer without looking, if it’s gov, it’s bias to fit there agenda. If they could make it pay then there study’s would suddenly change. Laws change all the time and government change their views to fit, what kind of truth is that. Whatever your talking about, it either is or it is not. Not is this week and not the next. What about Amsterdam gov surveys then, what about USA study’s that changed recently to make canabis legal if you pay gov to get a card that entitles use. Going of subject I know but point is, any study by government is debunk from its inception even before it’s conducted
Cannabis has never caused a single death and the carcinogens in marijuana smoke harm your lungs slightly after a seven year, everyday smoking of a marijuana cigarette, my proof is in the video
and multiple other websites not supporting cannabis use, but informing the very people whom would like to research this topic.
I was 18 yeras old…. i have been smoking it every day since i had my leggs run over by an 18 wheeler… it CURES cancer and so many other illnesses, i dont think that jesus would say that the (NEW WINE (cannabis) was better then (wine (alcahol) if it were not true, plus it says in the bible, that it is with BLESSINGS…you know what, ignorance and stupidity is right where the gov. and your dr. want you!!! GO READ YOUR BIBLE!!! and learn the truth, how about this, when you DIE, I want you to ask GOD that question…i am now 47 years old, i am in the best of health, i am also looking like im only early thirties, and i am active like im in my twenties… come to god and you to can feel like i do…
You who are puting down weed are a dumb a** you are geting your info from a science site science is run by the maisins who are the ilumanati who the devil him self is the leader so go f*** your self you pease of sh** devil worshiper
you are such a dumb a** shuve that hemlock up your a**. Taking edvice from dc. And science f***s who are all run by the maisens who are the iluminati who the devil leads not to mention the government the iluminati owns the good ol USA. Do your reserch ya devil worshiper.
Your lies are amazing and unfounded. Go back to sleep you ignorant sheep.Baaaaaaahhck to sleep.
Are you serious…really.your statements are false,research has shown that marijauna does not cause cancer or lung cancer but in fact heals cancer gets rid of headaches,did you know that cigarettes has 4000 cheymicals in just one cigarette thanks to your big brother the govt,the problem is is that everybody believes what the govt tells them…i on the other hand do not,i am a believer in YAHUWSHUA THE MESSIAH
Umm. . . what reefer madness have you been smoking dude? Read through those articles and you’ll find them to be outdated and full of lies. Nixon even threw the truth into the trash in order to keep the money flow going towards a false sense of job security. Yet, here you are defending a liar and claiming it for God. God created all things including you and said it was good. You mock him.
Did you know everything you just said is false?
I have fibromyalgia, severe endometriosis, premature glaucoma, restless leg syndrome, PLMD, bruxism, PTSD, and rheumatoid arthritis, plus Chronic fatigue syndrome. I have been in pain as long as I can remember. It is so difficult for me to get a good night sleep with my legs and muscles twitching ever 10-15 minutes and waking me up, that my immune system has gotten so weak that I get any virus or illness I am exposed to. I have had mono 8 times, chicken pox 3 times, and have gone to the ER at least once per month for the past 10 years.
5 years ago: I started having to wear a morphine patch and take 8 other muscle relaxers/ narcotic pain medications just to keep me out of the hospital. I would scream into my pillow and pray that the medicine would kick in before the stabbing feeling in my joints and stomach became unbearable.
1 year ago: In the state of Hawaii, medical cannabis is legal. I got the card, but am allergic to smoke, so I eat one brownie every night and have been able to go off over half of the synthetic narcotic medications because the cannabis keeps my muscles still all night long, and I am able to better fight off any illnesses that come my direction. The endometrial cyst ruptures which used to put me in the ER feel like a pin prick instead of a huge, double edged sword on my insides. I don’t feel any euphoria from the cannabis, in fact, I fall asleep within 30 minutes of eating my brownie, and am out like a light all night. It used to take me four hours to fall asleep, even on all that narcotic, addictive pain medicine, but the cannabis is a miracle. I am a Christian and believe in miracles. Thank you, God, for creating this plant to help your people live with less pain. Unlike the narcotics, which are synthetic and man-made, and can tear your liver and kidneys apart, cannabis is a plant which can be used in baking to heal. Aloha, Alena
Your argument is not valid as most of what you are saying has not been proven, whilst the positive things that the cannabis plant can bring to the body have been proven by scientists.
And you say that marijuana smoke has more poisonous toxins in the smoke than cigarette smoke? Are you serious dude? There are more than 40 known carcinogens in cigarette smoke (Arsenic, Acetaldehyde, Formaldehyde, Lead, Polonium-210, Nitromethane, Ethylene Oxide, just to name a FEW) and the only compounds in marijuana smoke that may cause cancer are just the Tar, Hydro Carbons, C02, and Carbon Monoxide just as a result of combusting the herb to smoke. (Please note that cigarettes also have these) If you vaporize or eat the cannabis, then I do not believe you are at risk for any kind of cancer, besides testicular cancer but that is just in young men who use. So I really do not know how you can say marijuana smoke contains more toxins than cigarette smoke.
Your argument about Hemlock is not valid either as Cannabis and Hemlock are not similar in ANY way. Hemlock is highly poisonous and has basically no uses. Cannabis has many useful purposes such as treating pain in Arthritis patients, treating seizures in people that are even just a few months old, controlling anxiety, treating depression, helping people with nausea eat, and helping with multiple sclerosis patients. Just to name a FEW uses of this wonderful plant.
And about people getting into wrecks.. um, Your not supposed to drive when your under the influence, any person knows that it is common knowledge and if you choose to drive while your under the influence of cannabis, then it will be the person’s fault of not having common sense..it won’t be the plants fault.
Yeah, that’s why the federal government has patented weed for its medicinal uses. Please leave your refer madness at home where it will only corrupt your immediate family.
I realize the above post is over a year old, but I wanted to take a minute to educate its author on something about hemlock and homeopathic medicine in general. You see before big pharm got its foot hold in north America and Europe the majority of doctors where naturalist, making medicine from plants. This thing, making medicine from plants, has been around since almost forever. Classic Chinese medicine and Ayurvedic medicine predate the birth of Christ by about 5,000+ years. Modern medicine not only kills people but is a really new science. Now on to the Hemlock, Its called Conium, Its made from the roots and stems of the hemlock plant, God gave some precious person the wisdom to neutralize the poison and still use the plant as medicine… SO your ignorance of funa and medicine render you argument invalid…. In summary, Yes before big pharm people did ‘eat’ hemlock
None of the passage ever talks about smoking. In fact, there has not been one single mention of “smoking”
Hemlock never existed before or during the bible, it in fact is stated in the wikipedia. “The eastern hemlock grows well in shade and is very long lived, with the oldest recorded specimen, found in Tionesta, Pennsylvania, being at least 554 years old.” (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsuga_canadensis)
This supports the bible’s passage about any plant before, or during the bible’s time. Its like your parents talking about WW1, but its actually WW2. They aren’t lying, but its not really true, anything that happened in WW1 didn’t exactly happen in WW2
I absolutely agree with you. The facts do not lie. People will come up with anything in order to justify something. We live in The United States of potheads, alcoholics, and drug addicts.
What a waste of what God intended for the human mind.
You sir, I realize that you are an Atheist and I HIGHLY respect you properly capitalizing God. Many people do not take the little time to capitalize the proper noun of God’s name and I thank you for showing respect to another persons’ religion and their god.
@ caleb…did u kno that god was not HIS NAME…HIS NAME is YaHuWaH..or some say YAHWEH which is fine..just a friendly note
Shalom
we shouldn’t judge those who do it god will work with in that persons prosces I my self was a pot head &&I used to always say the same thing god made it this n that I got saved little by little
god help me let go of it,every one has a proscess from aceptinghrist
Amen.
Right On Matthew Sands!
stop the pharmaceutical lie not everyone is a fool to be a beneficiary. Marijuana as natural and holy as it is should be respected and used by all as the true sacramental right which induces oneness and righteousness of mind. Respect the perfect creation of Jehovah, refer to 1 Timothy 4:4.
Blessed Heart of Love.
God saw that whatever He Had CREATED WAS GOOD.not inclusion of …….
u should read deuteronomy 14:26 we r permitted 2 use intoxicants n celebration
Scripture talks; man’s presumption walks.
Eze 47:12 “By the river on its bank, on one side and on the other, will grow all kinds of trees for food. Their leaves will not wither and their fruit will not fail. They will bear every month because their water flows from the sanctuary, and their fruit will be for food and their leaves for healing.”
1Ti 5:23 No longer drink water exclusively, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.
Mar 7:14 After He called the crowd to Him again, He began saying to them, “Listen to Me, all of you, and understand:
Mar 7:15 there is NOTHING outside the man which can defile him if it goes into him; but the things which proceed out of the man are what defile the man.
Mat 7:1 “Do not judge so that you will not be judged.
Mat 7:2 “For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.
Mat 7:3 “Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
Mat 7:4 “Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye?
Mat 7:5 “You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.
Mat 7:6 “Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.
Mat 7:7 “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
Mat 7:8 “For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.
Mat 7:9 “Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone?
Mat 7:10 “Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he?
Mat 7:11 “If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!
Mat 7:12 “In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
Mat_23:13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.
All above quoted from the New American Standard Version.
I couldn’t have said it more clearly myself. God’s Word is clear my friends. Woe to the Pharisiees, both in Messiah’s time and in ours.
Yours in the love of Yeshuah,
A Christian Man Named Don
You haven’t read what we’ve written. We do not condemn anyone for using marijuana. The original question was whether or not Scripture supports the use of marijuana. Based on the evidence we’ve found, we don’t think so.
The Scriptures you list are good ones. 1 Timothy 5:23 allows for the use of a little wine; we don’t dispute that.
Mark 7:15 says that it isn’t what goes in that defiles a man; we don’t dispute that either. We have never stated (and don’t believe) that people who use marijuana cannot be saved.
The Matthew 7 passage tells us not to judge. We do not judge people who use marijuana. Based on personal experience though, I will say with conviction that marijuana is harmful to a person’s body, harmful to a person’s motivation, harmful to a person’s ability to focus and harmful to their ability to function successfully in our society (partially because it’s illegal but also because it deadens senses). Should it be illegal? That’s a different argument. I don’t have the answer to that question.
I have worked with high school students. I have seen firsthand what consistent marijuana use does to their grades, to their family life, to their desire for extra-curricular activities, etc. Say what you will but marijuana is harmful and illegal.
I am not saying there is no benefit, but for most people, I believe there is not a benefit.
Do we judge those who use? No. Do we believe those who use are automatically going to hell? No. We believe that all who call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, who truly believe in Him, and whose lives evidence His indwelling will be saved, regardless of what substances they choose to consume.
I would respectfully disagree in love dear friend. There are so many Biblical and logical holes in your argument I don’t even know where to begin. I merely quoted scripture and you insinuated many things that I did not say. Isn’t there a commandment about something like, I don’t know, false testimony? Strap yourself in… it’s going to be a long and bumpy ride.
The “It’s for the children” argument is frivolous in my opinion. If you study the history of alcohol prohibition you will find that it created more problems than it solved, so much so that the Constitutional Amendment was repealed within a decade. In just about every corner drugstore a century ago you could legally buy opium and cocaine containing products, yet drug use was much less of a social problem than it is today. Relegating something, ie, a good or service to the black market by government decree (legislating non-violent, non-theft, non-perversions, or other so called “vice crimes” on the national level) only makes the problem worse and gives power to the mafia and gangs. Question: Are liquor store owners having shootouts in turf wars like they did in the Capone era? Answer: No, they are licensed, regulated, and taxed. If they get out of line, legitimate government authority will end that nonsense very quickly and has the full cooperation of the community.
I would disagree with your assumption that I did not read what you said. I got you loud and clear.
More people are incarcerated here in the good old US of A than in communist China, despite them having three times our population. (How many families are broken up when people are doing things that neither hurt society or themselves? How many children in these families turn to drugs, sex and alcohol to replace the lack of structure and love they would have had otherwise?) The prison system is a racket for Multinational corporations and greedy personal interest instead of being correctional institutions. Please see: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/26/opinion/blow-plantations-prisons-and-profits.html?_r=0 If you are concerned about fairness and equity please see: http://www.sentencingproject.org/template/page.cfm?id=122 The war on drugs jails more people in this country than are incarcerated for murder, rape, incest, and pedofelia. Abortion is legal in this country… Do you think God has changed his mind just because a secular de facto element of government has decreed it to be so? These things are CLEARLY frowned upon in scripture.
Pro 1:2 To know wisdom and instruction, To discern the sayings of understanding,
Pro 1:3 To receive instruction in wise behavior, Righteousness, JUSTICE and EQUITY;
Pro 1:4 To give prudence to the naive, To the youth knowledge and discretion,
Pro 1:5 A wise man will hear and increase in learning, And a man of understanding will acquire wise counsel,
Pro 1:6 To understand a proverb and a figure, The words of the wise and their riddles.
Pro 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; Fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Pro 1:8 Hear, my son, your father’s instruction And do not forsake your mother’s teaching;
Pro 1:9 Indeed, they are a graceful wreath to your head And ornaments about your neck.
Pro 1:10 My son, if sinners entice you, Do not consent.
Pro 1:11 If they say, “Come with us, Let us lie in wait for blood, Let us ambush the innocent without cause;
Pro 1:12 Let us swallow them alive like Sheol, Even whole, as those who go down to the pit;
Let me ask you dear friend… Is the demonizing of a plant of YHWH’s creation a good use of our time when unbelievers need to hear the Gospel of love and truth that our Meshiach Yeshua (Anglicized = Jesus Christ) commanded us to preach? Is it a good use of our time browbeating fellow followers of Christ on what they consume in complete disregard of the instruction of scripture? Is our perception of our truth important, or is it important that scripture and the Holy Spirit direct us in all that we do, despite the limited nature of our own humanistic reasoning? Is the Spirit of the Law or the letter of the law more important?
I think the point I am trying to make is that too many well meaning Christians are trying to make a fraudulent argument against the use of the plant in question. I am not an advocate or an opponent to how quanah-bosem is translated. Both sides have some interesting points. None are definitive in my honest OPINION. Do I care? Am I trying to justify what I do or don’t do? Hardly. Nor am I inferring that the Bible instructs us to ABUSE mind altering substances.
I think that many people are ignorant of the fact that there is a difference between USE and ABUSE. All of the consequences you describe stem from abuse and stupidity, not use. You say that this is a forum of debate on whether the Bible SPECIFICALLY mentions cannabis. That depends on your belief that quanah-bosem is the correct or incorrect translation for cannabis. That I cannot definitively say. Ancient Hebrew like Latin is a dead language. Some knowledge is just lost through time and thus is mere conjecture based on the evidence we have available as opposed to what exactly the way it might have actually been. What I can say DEFINITIVELY is the Bible instructs us on how to live and treat each other. It is made abundantly clear from repetition. Usually when something is important it is repeated many different ways throughout scripture to really drive the point home. For clarification here are some excerpts from the 1828 Webster’s Dictionary:
Use:
1. The act of handling or employing in any manner, and for any purpose, but especially for a profitable purpose; as the use of a pen in writing; the use of books in study; the use of a spade in digging. Use is of two kinds; that which employs a thing, without destroying it or its form, as the use of a book or of a farm; or it is the employment of a thing which destroys or wastes it, as the use of bread for provision; the use of water for turning a mill.
3. Usefulness; utility; advantage; production of benefit. the value of a thing is to be estimated by its use. His friendship has been of use to me.
5. Power of receiving advantage.
Abuse:
1. To use ill; to maltreat; to misuse; to use with bad motives or to wrong purposes; as, to abuse rights or privileges.
2. To violate; to defile by improper sexual intercourse.
3. To deceive; to impose on.
5. To pervert the meaning of; to misapply; as to abuse words.
In the interest of meeting you in the middle I will say that people that use the Bible for justification of their sinful actions is in direct contradiction to YHWH’s law. (For an example please see: http://www.temple420.org) Worshiping the creation of YHWH and/or twisting scripture for your own purposes is clearly contradictory to his will.
Question… When the ancient Israelites made the golden calf and worshiped it, was the point that gold itself was evil? Was not the Ark of the Covenant to be made in part from gold? When Jesus said that the love of money is the root of all evil, was he condemning the medium of exchange for goods and services, or was he condemning the storing of earthly treasures instead of Heavenly treasures? Clearly it is not the tools themselves that are sinful, but rather the application. If you raise up ANY idol before YHWH it is abhorrent in his eyes. I’m sorry that in your youth you didn’t seem to make this distinction and still don’t seem to be able to do.
Do guns kill or do people with sinful desires kill? If objects kill people in and of themselves, then we would have to outlaw and not use knives, rocks, axes, vehicles, and almost everything that we commonly use every day. I understand that accidents and “acts of God” happen, but isn’t scripture clear that these circumstances are to be treated in a different manner than willful acts of sin?
You mentioned that you worked with high school students. It wasn’t long ago that I was one. The reason why I turned to many drugs (not just cannabis) and sinful rebellious behavior was because my parents did not pay enough attention, were heavy drinkers, and were not around much. I’m not saying they didn’t love me, but they were far from a Godly example! They sent me to a good Christian grade school. What was their mistake? “Do as I say, not as I do”. Instead of making sure that I was instructed in moral ways THEMSELVES, they intrusted my upbringing with people with your world view as well intentioned as they may have been. I have news for you… it didn’t do me much good.
So I did what most others in that situation do… I rebelled. I thought my friends knew everything and my parents knew nothing. That’s what teenagers do. Youth are not wise because they lack experience and proper instruction. When my teachers and parents told me marijuana was bad, and I tried it and it made me feel good. In my immature way of thinking I then thought to myself “What else were they lying about!”. It was all downhill from there.
Drug abuse is always about an underlying problem. When I went to drug and alcohol classes 80% of the people there were middle aged, recently divorced men that were there for multiple DWI’s. The problem was the fact that their families, which is the most important thing to most of us, were in utter ruin. This disease cop-out is one of the biggest crocks I’ve ever heard. Making bad choices (sin) is the root of the problem. The abuse of substances are merely a symptom of the real underlying problems.
Alcohol use is a problem in our society as well. A majority of people can and do use it in a responsible manner. For a minority it is a huge problem. Does this mean that all of society must abstain just because of a few people that can’t control themselves? Just because it is “legal”, does the ABUSE of it make it right? Is cannabis use any different in this regard? Is it possible that for others than yourself it is not a hinderance but maybe even helpful whether recreationally or medicinally?
I was a bartender for 5 years. I also was a rebellious teen, so I saw plenty of cannabis, hard drug, and alcohol use in my time. I have seen more fights, arguments, and stupid behavior in a “legal” of age bar setting than I ever saw in 17 years of using and being around cannabis. If you are lazy or lack ambition to begin with, smoking pot probably won’t help you. On the other hand if you tend to have too much anger, ADHD, moodiness from chronic pain,or just what our elders used to call “Type A Personality”, cannabis might not be the worst thing in the world.
Here is one more point for you to ponder. Peanut allergies can be deadly to some. Does this mean that all of us should abstain from eating peanuts? Some people have have diabetes. Does this mean that all of us should inject insulin? How much sense does that make? Despite what some have led us to believe, not everybody is created equally. We are all special in the eyes of our Creator. Even “identical” twins have their own distinguishing fingerprints, irises of the eyes, and personalities.
In reference to the other ridiculous arguments about cannabis being harmful you and others here have put forth, ANYTHING that is burned and inhaled for extended periods of time are harmful. This includes tobacco, wood, tree leaves charcoal, gasoline and diesel fuels among others. Burning food and eating it over time has been shown to be a carcinogen. Common sense goes a long way.
Your hemlock argument is laughable; tomatoes are in the same category as the night shade plant, but one is harmful, and one is not. Would you advocate not eating tomatoes?
Would you say that the American Cancer Society is a reliable source? A few people have claimed here that cannabis has no medicinal properties. Maybe you should look at their website:
http://www.cancer.org/Treatment/TreatmentsandSideEffects/ComplementaryandAlternativeMedicine/HerbsVitaminsandMinerals/marijuana
While I have never had cancer, I have had headaches, back pain, joint pain (no pun intended!) and also have a hiatal hernia, all of which I have used marijuana for in the past and is far more effective that anything I’ve tried either prescription or over the counter. I also have been told that is good for Multiple Sclerosis, menstrual cramps, chronic wasting disease, staph infections, insomnia, etc. Seriously, try google-ing the above. I’m sure you will learn if you are willing to take 30 minutes of your life to research these things instead of relying on secular D.A.R.E. and government propaganda paid for by mega-corporate interests. Ignorance and lack of compassion is not an excuse. 17 states and of all places Washington DC have legalized medical cannabis. We the People are responsible for governing ourselves, so please don’t give me this cockameme illegal spiel. Try talking to people with the above conditions. Talk to doctors and see what they think. In my opinion this plant is far more useful than anything the drug companies push. Maybe YHWH knew what he was doing with his creation after all.
I would like to apologize to all for my long-winded diatribe. I’m not trying to be a blowhard, but I’ve dealt with your type before and I know that previous rebuttal is not the last. You started this argument in 2009 and you still haven’t had enough. A rebuttal was here waiting for me in a matter of days. I just wanted to get all my ducks in a row so to speak and be done with it.
I tried to let scripture do the talking on this one and keep my opinions to myself. Remember it was you and a few others here that engaged in nonsensical secular circular fallacy operating in presumption and not truth that led to my lengthy rebuttal. I guess that’s why good ministers will always have some sermons to preach because people like to pick and chose what they want to get out of scripture and twist it in an attempt to make it fit their notions instead of hearing what the Good Lord has to say. If anyone has any BIBLICAL rebuttal that they would like to offer, I’m all ears. As for secular and “logical” arguments, I’ve had enough to last a lifetime.
Deu 14:26 “You may spend the money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen, or sheep, or wine, or strong drink, or whatever your heart desires; and there you shall eat in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household.
Col 2:20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
Col 2:21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!”
Col 2:22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)–in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
Col 2:23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.
1Ti 4:1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
1Ti 4:2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,
1Ti 4:3 men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude;
1Ti 4:5 for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.
I pray the above is taken with love and with the edification of the Body of Christ in mind. I also pray that if I am wrong, may the Lord bless me with his grace and knowledge of his truth.
A Christian Man Named Donald
PS: Just for fun-
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
-Ghandi
“The moral principles and precepts contained in the Scripture ought to form the basis of all our civil constitutions and laws.”
? Noah Webster
“Corrupt or incompetent men will be appointed to execute the laws; the public revenues will be squandered on unworthy men; and the rights of the citizens will be violated or disregarded.”
-Noah Webster, 1832, History of the United States
Like what? I simply responded to what you wrote. Again, we do not condemn people who use. We simply think that most usage is harmful (agreeing with your “use” vs. “abuse” argument). As I’ve said, there may be a benefit for some and we do not condemn or judge those who use.
I never said “it’s for the children.” I said it hurts the children I know who use it.
Your peanut allergy and diabetes arguments make no sense to me. If something is harmful to a person (peanuts in your argument), obviously they should not eat peanuts. If something is helpful (insulin) then the person to whom it is helpful should use it. I don’t see how that relates to the fact that marijuana is a dangerous drug (for those who abuse it and potentially for those who are experimenting with it and for all who smoke it as you have mentioned). As I’ve said before, it may have benefit for some who use it responsibly and again I’ll say we do not condemn or judge anyone who chooses to use it. Did you hear that? You and others who respond seem to think we have it out for those who use or that we think those who use are going to hell or something. We don’t and we don’t! Your passion and fervor (and others’) for an illegal drug continues to amaze me. As you claim we do, you pick and choose what you want to hear. I’ll say it again: we do not judge or condemn or question the salvation of those who use.
We will continue to assert that Scripture does not support or encourage the use of marijuana (the point of the original article). We understand that many choose to use and again we assert that we do not condemn or judge those people or question their salvation. Their salvation is between them and God. I hope you hear what I’m saying.
My type? My goal is to share the love of Jesus Christ with all who will listen. This thread is interesting because people are so passionate about defending marijuana. I wait for the day when people are as passionate about sharing Jesus Christ with the hurting and lost as they are about defending an illegal, addictive and dangerous drug.
I’m not aware of the nonsensical secular circular fallacy you’re referring to. Our argument is simple and people draw far too much from it. I will summarize it for you. We believe that the use of marijuana is not advocated in Scripture. That’s what the original article is about. We have provided support and evidence for what we believe on this (read the article if you are interested in our opinion on this). Secondarily (which has come forth in this thread), we believe that marijuana is dangerous and addictive. Our arguments on this are not necessarily from Scripture but from personal experience.
He said it was good and He gave all plants and their fruits they yield for food, how can the Bible not support its uses? you basis your argument off of mans law and ideology not God’s law and the ways of God, for his way is not our ways. So then, He sent his only begotten Son to die for us when we were still yet in our own way so that no one may perish.
“me”, not only are you ignorant of the reality and purpose of Yahuwah Elohim, but your lack of understanding of the present system of things concerning government policies, specifically in these last days, is staggering. But then, you (mr me) are a christian who believes in god, lord(baal-check out a good dictionary) and jesus, pagan names that have come down from mixed-up traditions of men. Do you know that cannabis seed contains one of the highest amount of protein for any plant, and in the best balance, and that were it not made illegal by the beast empire, protein malnutrition in the third world (so-called!) would be non-existent? and why do you keep comparing it to hemlock? r u carrying the can for the scare-mongers who wish to perpetuate their evil rule thru’ unreasonable fear? r u just so ignorant that the same govts, who make a plant as natural as cannabis illegal, are busy throwing out into the public domain many factory-produced “legal high” products? You obviously are not a serious student of prophecy, and from the way you sound, you probably are breaking Yah’s seventh-day sabbath while crowing about the evil cannabis! go and get schooled matey.
“me” or whoever you call yourself i think your small time Christian that’s why you drift with men doctrines. How do you call what God created harmful and illegal? the bible states through Paul that everything god created is good and nothing to be rejected. you are God’s creation are you harmful and illegal? I have smoked and i am still smoking that plant/herb and it concluded to me that when the bible talks about the tree of knowledge of good and bad truly there was that tree, not like how some people say or twist the Adam, Eve and the snake story. Go and try smoking that plant/herb then come and tell us the real truth nothing but truth.
God created many harmful things. Many plants are poisonous and will kill you. And I’ve smoked plenty of pot. And I still feel that it is not beneficial for me. It kills my motivation and kills my pocketbook and clouds my mind and puts me at odds with the law . . . the only thing it did for me was help me forget about all my troubles (as well as everything else that I wasn’t supposed to forget).
Read the first chapter of the bible that all you need to know about plants and everything else God created. Man has a funny way of twisting this idea of plant use by the way of man’s law. God created it and said it was good. It matters not that Jesus was anointed with cannabis oil or not, it is irrelevant and God does not contradict himself nor mock himself or is to be mocked
God created the herbs of the field for the service of man to bring forth bread from the Earth. When the word study was done in 1936, the following year the war on Hemp began. In a formula given by God to Moses the other ingredients in the right measures makes it what Yahova says it is. It is holy and anything it touches is most holy If you use calamus you actually create exstasy. That might explain the sexual perversion in the catholic church.. How many Christians are gluttons and don’t think it is sin, or drunks. If God calls something good it is good. If you are a self righteous hypocrite, you will side with the modern day witchcraft, pharmaceuticals, Jesus warned us of.
How times have not exactly changed yet revealed what we’ve known for thousands of years, people are greedy liars and hate you so they will use you and give you only the tools you nee to do the job they want you to do. Now we know marijuana has way way way too many healing properties and you all simply did what you wer told and believed what you wer told (by man) good little soldiers.
AND JUST WHAT US THE “TRUTH” DEAR ONE..THE TRUTH of THOSE of US, THAT WOULD POINT,& SCREAM YOU FILTHY SINNER”, OR THE TRUTH of THE ELDERLY PERSON , THAT USES IT TO KEEP FROMITTING UP EVERYTHING THEY EAT,& GET ANY REST FER THE HORRIFIC PAIN of AILMENTS , SUCH AS CANCER? WHICH TRUTH DEAR HEART WHICH TRUTH..MAYBE WE SHOULD “WALK A MILE IN THIER MOCCASANS”HMMMM? UNLESS YOUVE WATCHED,& LISTENED TO AN ELDERLY PERSON CRY OUT IN PAIN, OR WATCH ONE DWINDLE AWAY TO ABSOLUTE SKIN,& BONE FROM MALNUTRITION YOU SHOULD HOLD YOUR JUDGEMENT .THERE BUT FER THE “GRACE of GOD” GO YOU, OR I.
Thank you for your comments! We pray that you will continue seeking His truth in all you do. We’ve personally seen pot ruin lives. It can control a person to the point that they stop caring about themselves or their families. We do not believe Scripture condones its use in any way.
Neither does scripture condone the eating of twinkees. I’ve seen twinkees ruin the lives of people as well. I believe idolatry is what ruins peoples lives be it cannabis or candy.
I get the clarity of your statement that you do not believe that scripture condones the use of cannabis. But I cannot help the fact that you are not confronting the judgemental attitude of the first poster: he calls brothers who use cannabis hypocrits. I think it is clear that this is a dangerous attitude to even bear in another brother considering the danger he may be putting himself in. THIS is what turns people away from the truth. The fact that those who are quick to judge in gray areas (mostly regarding externalities, such as cannabis use), as long as they agree with everyone at church, are never confronted regarding heart issues (the real issue being idolatry). Scripture may not be clear on cannabis use but it is clear on judgment. Yeshua had more to say about Pharisees judging others than any of the “lowlifes” he reached out too. Please take care not to fall into the same mistake you are blaming others of commiting. Even “self control” can be an idol. Infact Yeshua had the hardest time reaching those with that idol than any other. Those seeking lesser pleasures out of God’s order could percieve more readily the greater pleasure of life in the Messiah (one does not necessarily erase the partaking in the others, it simply places them in right order), those who had “self control” often missed him altogether. Beware.
“Neither does Scripture condone the eating of Twinkies.”
Agreed. We do not mean to condemn those who feel they have freedom in Christ to smoke marijuana. For us, it is sin.
We agree with you that as Christians, we should not judge. We definitely don’t mean to be judgmental. The point of the article was not to judge those who use marijuana, but to show that Scripture does not encourage the use of marijuana.
We are far from perfect and fail in many ways.
Thank you for your response. For us it is sin is right on as anything not done in faith is sin. Just wondering if you would say that scripture discourages the use of cannabis. I am not baiting you just curious.
Something that God said is good is not sin if he said it is good. Why do you continue to argue against what the Lord has created?
a sin is knowing what is right to do and not doing it. How do you justify smoking the plant/herb as a sin? your mind need a lot of scrubbing, let it get washed and renewed then you will know why God created the herbs/plants all of these have their use.
Did we say it was a sin?
Pot controls people? thats just nonsense, if you want to look at controlling drugs, I suggest you look at drugs that detox centers will accept you for taking(and to detox from) painkillers(physically addictive) alcohol(both physical and mentally addictive) heroin, etc, Marijuana users are not accepted at most state and federally funded detox centers, BECAUSE IT IS NOT CONSIDERED physically or mentally addictive. Marijuana has been demonized, because of greed laden folks who were only looking out for their own best interests(from william randolph hearst, to drug companies, to richard nixon, all demonized it, to profit for themselves, or in nixons case to shut up the protesters of his horrible war, even the studies his own scientific panel reported were in favor of marijuana, and against the myths you report, and nixon said he would take his view from said reports, UNTIL they concluded the stereotype, and nixons opinion were wrong) Willaim randolph Hearst, demonized it because he owned paper mills, and logging lands, and he knew paper could be produced cheaper through hemp, than through logging, so he bribed politicians to demonize it.(these stories are shown on history channel) my whole point is that people have been scared about things they have no or little knowledge about, and in most cases, just because a fellow laymen, said so, the evidence shows us otherwise.
Yes, pot controls people. No, it’s not nonsense. I have been controlled by it as have many people I’ve known. That is proof enough for me. Marijuana is not being demonized by me because I am greedy. I am looking out for my own best interests (and the interests of my family and whoever will listen), however, and that is why I avoid the drug. You look at studies. I look at real lives of real people that have been significantly impacted (and not for the better) by marijuana.
you say you are greedy……selffish. already two of mans biggest sins no good…..real lives you seen probably smoke crack,meth,cocaine …
It controlled you because you are WEAK! If you smoked marijuana and had no ambition and drive, couldn’t function, and was couch locked- then that’s YOUR problem.
I know PLENTY of responsible people who smoke AND are contributing members of society; i.e., they hold own 9-5s.
Anything that is not used responsibly can ruin lives, not just marijuana. And yes, we will continue to defend it’s use, because of the blatant ignorance that surrounds its use.
People are drudging up outdated information leaked by the satanic government; parroting what they hear, instead of doing unbiased research, and letting go of their “isms”.
I’ll bet you if we check the majority of the naysayers lives, we’d find they are partaking in far more spiritually dangerous extracurricular activities. I always question the lives of the members of the “holier than thou” motley crew with their pompous and narcissistic selves “it is a sin to US” jargon.
I totally agree with some of the other posters, The Most High YAH created the seed Marijuana and said it was GOOD! Now, I will agree that it should be used as food (meat), to cook with, make teas out of, make salves out of; but if a person wants to smoke it, it’s between him/her and his/her Creator.
Thanks, but no thanks. You can keep on taking the chemicals that the demon pharmacologists makes FROM PLANTS; I’ll continue to use Natures Best.
You are absolutely bonkers you know that ? Its really funny how you contradict yourself throughout the comments I see judgement throughout these comments and you have the nerve to say I don’t mean to judge but yet you keep on its kinda hilarious. Your feeble attempt to give pot a bad name has failed . I honestly think your just a religious nut so I’m not going to even try to defend pot because you will obviously just throw god in there as a shield.
Marijuana and other drugs are not necessary for life. People may use them because the drugs make them feel good, or they think they get some medical benefit from them. I suspect few people actually use them because they believe the drugs are drawing them into a deeper study of God’s word, a deeper concern for others, or greater self-control, which is one of the marks that the Spirit of God is truly in control of one’s life (Galatians 5:23).
I have 3 specialists and my body to prove you wrong. and as for this above lie. I can tell you this scientifically proven information . 1 Cannabis is almost a perfect protein 2 that it is a safer and more reliable pain reliever and has not killed anyone in 5 thousand years of recorded history.
and that its perfectly natural, and has been proven to kill cancer by natural ways of the body , and that cannabinoids are in mothers milk.
so just exactly where have you gotten your information?
this is apparent that you along with many others here want to bury your heads in the sands of denial and ignorance.
I have friends who use/need Cannabis in the range of 10-50grams a day to LIVE.
and NOT make their Bodies reject food and water and treat pain. I find it ironic, ( or is that moronic ) that many of these religious people here judge Cannabis users for pain and medical treatments who have long standing track records proving success.medically , yet you all know so very little about it, and judge from your limited and uneducated experiences.
this shows that you all are in fact not Christians , at all. and as a reverend myself . I can tell you throughout the history of theology people just like you Caused the inquisitions, and deaths of Hundreds of thousands of souls.
why participate in that kind of action by choosing to be completely ignorant of facts , and then participate in mob mentality and flying in the face of actual facts?
I hope god blesses you with some soul searching insight. and the holy spirit moves you to stop acting and speaking in ignorance.
maybe you should meet with some patients who use it before you think you know what you speak of.
that would be exactly what Jesus would do. but you’d know this, if you read the bible.
god bless.
Not necessary for life? Really?
The endocannabinoid system is a major regulator in the body implicated in almost all diseases including cancer.
Medical Marijuana prohibition is a crime against humanity and a violation of the religious precept – heal the sick.
I’m amazed that anyone would actually try to make a case for pot use from the Bible. I enjoyed reading your thorough explanation Tim, thanks for shedding some light on this subject.
Some people think, including brothers in Christ, that it makes a very strong case and that it using cannabis is not a sin. Scriptures can be stacked up on both sides. Do a pharmacological study on plants roots and spices used in the Bible – some of them commanded to be used. You may disagree with the application of scripture on one side or the other but to assume that your side is right without looking yourself is to cheat yourself. Wrestle with God. Don’t settle into the opinions of men. Just love men.
Tim was basically debunking in the article not really asserting much of anything. What do you know about the substances talked about in the Bible? Did you know that Frankincense is a psychotropic used for enhancing prayer and meditation? The gift they gave young Yeshua. Dont know why people in the light have to paint the picture they want to see into scripture. I had a brother say to me, “Well He never used it. They probably sold it for money.” I was like ah so now Mary and Joseph were drug dealers lol. Dont understand why people conclude that psychotropics and God are TOTALLY seperate or even the non-believer attitude that God is purely the product of psychotropic experiences. These things dont have to be mutually exclusive and after searching the scriptures I find both assertions to be absurdist at best. Find your own answers through research and prayer. Tim is giving you a good start.
I’m amazed every day by the attitudes, morals, egos and judgemental ways of all who claim to be religious. The lord says very clearly, we’re ALL sinners, we’re all wrong, none of us know anything, we just think we’re right. The only thing is prayer faith and repentance for our sins, and obviously to accept Jesus and what he did for us out of his love for us. If anyone knows the truth for definite, then you need to phone the bbc straight away and book a slot on 6 o,clock news because you have just become the first one EVER to know it. As for this debate, kaneh bosum is a sweet smelling reed or cane. Is calamus a reed or cane, no. Is hemp a sweet smelling cane?
People use, and have used, the Bible to justify all sorts of things, including murder. But like you say, making a case that the Bible promotes the use of an illegal drug like marijuana does seem a little ridiculous!
Ya maybe you are not trying to do this but you discredit your arguments by linking cannabis use to murder and by insinuating that illegal and drug are the reason why it would be ridiculous for the Bible to promote it as opposed to being more accurate and saying it neither promotes or prohibits clearly. It just sounds like the kind of illogical churchy reasoning that angers Christian and non christian thinkers alike. Its very dismissive and top down in tone. Just giving feedback. I am often guilty of the same thing. It gives some people the impression that although you say “Its not really clear in the Scriptures…but we all know what side God is really on (wink wink).” Thank you for you study of this topic. Please keep up the good work.
We didn’t link cannabis to murder we simply stated that people will often twist Scripture to match their own ideas. E.g., people have used Scripture to justify murder (among other things).
Also, we believe that Scripture is clear that Christians should follow the laws of the land. We don’t mean to sound “top down” but we believe Scripture to be clear on this. Of course, our allegiance is to God first (Daniel 3 & 6; Acts 4:19, 5:29).
Thank you for your response. I believe that last comment you made refering allegiance to God first is the perspective that many bring to possesing and using cannabis even with the legal prohibition of possesion. As they view this as a gift from God they classify the prohibition as injustice and oppression – which as Christians we should be passionately against. Not saying I see a clear line in the sand here but I believe that is what I see being expressed by some on this blog. Awesome comments. Keep em coming.
Ihave several condition which i used to use the plant in question to help w unfortunatly the law n the fact that my family n freinds looked down on me for it made me seek out alternative i have tried every drug doctor prescribed each made me sick had negative effects on my mood personality sleeping and eating patterns and relationships w those i love i live in washington where this herb has recently been made legal i have been thinking of switching back to this plant but was unsure of the morals of its use being as i have recently become a christtian currently following the teaching of he saventh day adventist church if i use this herb in place of the harmful “medicines” i am currently taking i wuld need to use it often to a point some may consider abuse but ifeel my perscriptions r a much worse abuse my question is if i use this plant in thanks giving to our savior in the way that i pray over each meal would this b acceptable by our lord or condoned in the bible? -A man seeking help w an inner struggle p.s. my apologies for any spelling or grammar errors(of which im sure there are many) i am not using an acctual computer for this.
I quit herb 22 years ago, no prob. cigarettes, crack, cocaine, a different story. I have had back problems since a young age. in 2006 had 3 back surgeries, and still have problems. I am saved! I know where I am with God! I have always preached that it is a good plant, I believe it should be eaten not smoked, all the negative press out there is done on studies of people smoking it. In the Hebrew translations it is used as an “anointing”. People cannot convince me that the smoke is good. The problem is that since it is illegal by “mans law” people cannot afford to eat it, for it’s properties. When man made it illegal, he made it a bad thing, bad people do things they think are bad, (just the nature of sin), but back in the B.C. and the early A.D. it was a way to be closer to God. The people who used this plant at that time, used it as a medicine, rope, clothing, etc. and for prayer. If people believe in the end of times, and people pulling away from God, like in Sodom and Gomorrah. Why would Man (sin) not want this plant around. The last 4 years have been very hard for me, I am 41 yrs old and just had a total hip replacement, during those 4 yrs the doctors have had me on Oxycontin 60 mg twice a day, and Oxycodone 30 mg twice a day. I researched this plant for the last 15 yrs, I went to a judge, an attorney, a ex-chief of police, 4 cops (one is head of narcotics), my family, employers, and two preachers one being the author of the (Clear Word version Bible) J.B. out of all the people I talked to only one said don’t do it. I prayed about this more than anyone knows. I was so far down a bad road with the doctors meds. I had to get away from that path, I started using the plant two months ago, and now off the medicines. In the last two weeks I have done less medicines and less of the plant, only because of mans law. The last two days, I have only used Advil and Naproxen. Again, the plant is easy to stop doing, the plant helped me with my pain, while I went into shakes and cold sweats because of withdraws lasting for over a month. It seems to me the modern meds are the ones that pull you away from God, not the plant. I will also say that I have spent more time talking to God, (using this plant right way) than I have ever have before. I believe it is good, if used for good. The only reason it is bad, is because of mans law, and people trying to rebel against it. I am not trying to convince anyone to use this plant, but knowing what it has done for me, I can’t not share. People, please do research and make your own decisions!! If you feel it is a sin, then it is, you are doing it for the wrong reasons; always have God involved.
although this is true back in biblical times marijuana or cannabis was not illegal so there wouldve been nothing moraly wrong with doing it
I am not sure who Sula Bennet is, but Aryeh Kaplan was a Great Great Scholar. You would be wise not to doubt his conclusion that Kaneh Bosm is in fact Cannabis. The question is why your mind can not wrap around this very simple and straight forward translation rather then your tortured logic to come up with calamus.
I do not dispute that Aryeh Kaplan was a great Jewish scholar and rabbi. But I have not been able to find where Rabbi Kaplan stated that he believed “Kaneh Bosm” was “cannabis.” All of the web sites I have found that say Rabbi Kaplan concluded “Kaneh Bosm” means “cannabis” cite to “The Living Torah” as the basis for their statements. But Rabbi Kaplan never states his opinion about the meaning of “Kaneh Bosem” in “The Living Torah.” He makes three statements as to the identity of “Kaneh Bosem”in his notes on Exodus 20:23. First, he states that the ancient sources identify “Kaneh Bosem” with sweet calamus. Second, he states that other sources identify the words with the Indian plant “Cympopogan martini,” which has the form of red straw. Third, he states: “On the basis of cognate pronunciation and Septuagint readings, some identify Kaneh Bosem with the English and Greek cannabis, the hemp plant.” He provides pictures of each of these three different plants in his “The Living Torah.” He provides no indication of his own conclusion on this matter.
Many other equally great Rabbis conclude that the word does not mean “cannabis.” And I have given you my rationale for why the word cannot be read as meaning “cannabis.”
If you are searching for the truth, I would be happy to interact with any data you have to support a conclusion that “Kaneh Bosem” means “cannabis.” I think you will find, when you press the data, that it does not provide much weight to counter the long weight of the historical meaning of the term.
lmfao! i really doubt jesus used weed! and if so he didn’t smoke it. =D
You don’t think that our savior, the one and the only, utilised a plant that was placed on earth for the use and consumption, in any way, by man? Personally, I feel that Jesus would have used cannabis, but that is my own opinion. However, I think it CHILDISH and NAIVE to form opinions on a natural, organic herb that you have not tried and formulated your own opinion about. I’m not saying that no one here hasn’t tried it, but I’m sure the MAJORITY has not used cannabis, and never will. This, to me, seems like everyone is formulating opinions about something that they have never tried. Instead, their opinions are those of the government, who made cannabis illegal. Cannabis is a plant. The government does NOT own any plants that were created by our father, and are in turn SINNING. Jesus wanted us to make CHOICES, otherwise he would have made us robots. God gave us the gift of CHOICE, and he also gave us the gift of cannabis, which, illegal or not, should be tried by whoever forms a negative opinion about it, and by everyone who forms a positive opinion about it, because everyone is different. So, if everyone is different, why aren’t you being a unique individual by listening to the lies that are SPOON-FED to us by the media, by the government, and by America, as a country? I do not judge you, I do not hate you, but I do think that making opinions about something you know nothing about is foolish. After all, you never knew you liked lasagna UNTIL you tried it.
Much love,
JakeTheKiffer
I appreciate your comment. But I’d suggest you go back and read previous comments. I’ve tried plenty of marijuana. Read my story. Read the previous comments. I know, personally, inside and out, the pot culture. I know how potheads live and how they think. I was one for years.
I’m not sure if you living the life as a pot head in your past because you smoked a plant that was never intended to be smoked. If you have done any research for yourself on juicing raw buds and leaves or making hemp oil from the buds and leaves you’d know that there is no psycho activity related to these. Not sure, as I’m still reading all these comments,, but the science of endocannabinoids produced by our bodies and its reaction to ingested hemp oil or juiced cannabis is clearly work of our God. I suggest looking deeper into the science behind cannabis and cannabinoids before thinking that God didnt intend for us to make wide spread use of this plant for prevention of illness.
Sincerely,
Sperry
you only know your own thots man. don’t u even try to suggest otherwise for your lies d be too obvious!
I don’t think any amount of scholarship will convince someone that is closed to something they don’t already understand. No get ready for this, Marijuana is actually a reference to Mary and John, Maria y Juan the bringer of the Christ, Messiah, Moshiach the Anointed One. Believe it or, Marijuana is a reference to the inner experience of the Chirst/Messiah that is in each one of us, and that is what Mary and John (maria y juan) are symbols of. By “smoking” Mari y Juan, Mary and John, the inner christ is ignited. I know this will come as a shock to many, but that is what it is all about. Awakeing the “Inner Christ” “Messiah” “Moschiah” that is the real “truth” of the bible. ….and the truth shall set you free.
Hey Tim, you didn’tlook very hard, I found it in one search, here is the actual page from Kaplan’s book.
(link removed; dead url)
I am not sure that you read either the page from Kaplan’s book or my earlier comment. I actually quote that very page of the book in my previous comment. Kaplan never says anywhere on this page that he thinks “kaneh bosem” is marijuana. The words highlighted in Hebrew are the words “kaneh bosem” as they appear in the Hebrew text of Exodus 30. Rabbi Kaplan then comments on these words by stating that ancient sources say that this is sweet calamus. Others think it is an Indian plant. He then says that some see this cannabis. He never states that he thinks this third view is right. I am still trying to find where Rabbi Kaplan states that he thinks this is a reference to cannabis. This page does not state what his view is.
I do hope you are not playing the role of content editor in this alleged quest for the truth, and my comments well be posted.
Happy to have a point by point debate with you. Your point about the Mishna word being a foriegn word in Hebrew is correct, but that is also true of Keneh Bosem, and the Old Testament references as well. Benet’s etymological research regarding the Hebrew terms ‘keneh bosem’ and ‘keneh’ was based upon tracing the modern word ‘cannabis’ back through history to show the similarities between the cognitive pronunciation of ‘cannabis’ and ‘keneh bosem’ and as well as comparing the term to the names used for cannabis by contemporary kingdoms, such as the Assyrian and Babylonians terms for the plant ‘qunubu’. In fact the term ‘keneh bosem’, also rendered q’neh bosem’ is the Hebrew transliteration of an earlier Indo-European term for the plant ‘canna’. This term left traces through the vernacular ‘an’ seen in various modern terms for cannabis, such as the Indian bhang, the French chanvre, the Dutch canvas and the German hanf.
This use of an Indo-European word in the Semitic language shows that the ritual use of cannabis came to the Hebrews from foreign sources and, as an item of trade, likely via the Scythians, it retained the core aspects of its original name. Indeed, in both the Jeremiah 6:20 and Ezekiel 27:19 references referred to by Benet, cannabis is identified as coming as an item of trade from a foreign land, and indeed as the additional references noted by Benet tell when put into the context of the Biblical storyline, this foreign association with the plant may in fact have been the cause of its disfavour amongst the ancient Hebrews. Certain researchers, who claim the designation of ‘calamus’ as keneh bosem stands correct, have failed to note this situation, which excludes ‘calamus’ by the fact that it was a common marsh root in the area, not an item of trade. The term also has some similarities with the contemporary Assyrian terms, as well as identical uses in both groups, as shown above.
If you’ve written an article you want to link to, that is fine. Please do not paste entire articles in the comments or the comment will be deleted. Point by point debate is acceptable, and welcomed, but make it that – a point by point debate.
I am playing the role of content editor.
My reasons for this are not to “block” or “cover” up the truth. The truth can and will be found by any who truly seek, but it may not be found by those with an agenda (e.g., those who enjoy sin looking for confirmation that what they’re doing is acceptable in the eyes of Jesus).
Again, keep your comments short and concise and they will be welcomed. If you have an article to link to, link to it.
Eric
Thanks Chris Bennett, well said. And for those of you who rely on a translation only, 420 is the gematria of smoke. I know everyone has their theory as to the origin of the term, but I can not think of one that predates the “Old Testament”.
aleph shin nun = smoke = 420
Have the same regard for one another; do not be haughty but associate with the lowly; do not be wise in your own estimation.
Romans 12:16
It is curious that my well thought out repsonses are being excluded from this forum, the last post I wrote never showed up, and that is true of a number of posts I have submitted here, some not very long at all. This is disheartening to find on a site with a title like “truthsaves”.
My email is [email protected]
I will post my point by point response on my blog
http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/blog/38
For a full account of Sula Benet’s article see
http://books.google.ca/books?id=CBXxnaGk0hwC&pg=PA40&dq=exodus+30:23+cannabis&lr=#v=onepage&q=exodus%2030%3A23%20cannabis&f=false
Support for Benet’s work
For an account on the keneh and keneh bosem references in the context of the Old Testament (I wrote that article over a decade ago, there is a mistake in there regarding seraphim) http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/1090.html
Christian references
http://www.cannabisculture.com/backissues/cc11/christ.html
My point by point response
Tim
1)You state that there are Christians who use Scripture to justify the use of marijuana. There are also people who claim to know Christ and use Scripture to justify everything from racial hatred towards others to turning a deaf ear to the cries of the immigrant and the poor. Not everyone who says “Lord, Lord,” will enter the kingdom of God (Matthew 7:21).
Chris
A) There are also people who have used the Bible to justify the drug war, the burning of witches and other crimes. I’m not really sure what your point is, that there is a lot of mean stuff in the Bible?
2) Paul tells us in Titus 1:16 that there are people who profess to know God but in their works they deny Him. I say this, not to state that everyone who uses marijuana is going to hell, but to say that people have long twisted the words of Scripture to their own destruction (2 Peter 3:16).
There are two fundamental ways of approaching Scripture. The first way is to seek to find in Scripture support for what we want to do. The second way is to seek to find in Scripture how we should be changed (see 2 Corinthians 3:18). For those who follow the first way, I suspect there is nothing that I or others can say to change their minds. For those who follow the second, I offer the following.
B) Paul never met Jesus, initially he was persecuting Christians, and then when he converted, he is shown throughout the New Testament t be in conflict with Christians who were practicing the faith before his own timely conversion. The Roman Catholic church is based around the teachings of Paul and it was clearly in conflict with other early Christian groups now known by the collective name of Gnostics. These are key elements in the later suppression of cannabis and the Christian groups that used it, as well as the development of the Christian Dark Ages
As we shall see in this debate, these themes also play out in Tim’s analysis of the biblical references to cannabis, and are telling by what he leaves out of the discussion. One is left wondering if he was really on a quest for the truth of the matter, or merely out to discredit a perceived threat?
Before continuing, it should also be noted that there is other linguistic evidence for cannabis in the Bible, missed by Tim.
In different publications of A CYCLOPAEDIA OF BIBLICAL LITERATURE, the 19th century scholar John Kitto put forth two, potentially related, etymologies for “hashish”, through Hebrew terms Shesh, which originates in reference to some sort of “fibre plant”, and the possibly related word, Eshishah, (E-shesh-ah?) which holds connotations of “syrup” or “unguent”.
In a 1903 essay, INDICATIONS OF THE HACHISH-VICE IN THE OLD TESTAMENT A British physician, Dr. C. Creighton, concluded that several references to marijuana can be found in the Old Testament. Examples are the ‘honeycomb’ referred to in the Song of Solomon, 5:1, and the ‘honeywood’ in I Samuel 14: 25-45” (Consumer Reports 1972). Creighton felt that in “the O.T. there are some half-dozen passages where cryptic references to hachish may be discovered… But that word, which is the key to the meaning, has been knowingly mistranslated in the Vulgate and in the modern version, having been rendered by a variant also by the LXX in one of the passages, and confessed as unintelligible in the other by the use of a marginal Hebrew word in Greek letters” (Creighton 1903).
Hachish, which is the disreputable intoxicant drug of the East…is of unknown antiquity. It is known that the fiber of hemp-plant, Cannabis sativa, was used for cordage in ancient times; and it is therefore probable that the resinous exudation, “honey” or “dew”, which is found upon its flowering tops on some soils, or in certain climates (Cannabis Indica), was known for its stimulant or intoxicant properties from an equally early date…we may assume it to have been traditional among the Semites from remote antiquity. There are reasons, in the nature of the case, why there should be no clear history. All vices are veiled from view; they are sub rosa; and that is true especially of the vices of the East. Where they are alluded to at all, it is in cryptic, subtle…and allegorical terms. Therefore if we are to discover them, we must be prepared to look below the surface of the text. (Creighton 1903)
Dr. Creighton put forth the idea that the tale of Nebuchadnezzar eating grass gave indication of cannabis use. He stated that “in the case of Daniel’s apologue of Nebuchadnezzar’s fall, it arises from the eating of ‘grass’, the Semitic word having both a generic and a colloquial meaning (hachish), as well as from the introduction of the subjective perceptions of hachish intoxication as gigantic or grotesque objects” (Creighton 1903).
The German researcher Immanuel Low, in his DIE FLORA DER JUDEN (19261967) identified a number of ancient Hebrew references to cannabis, here as an incense, food source, as well as cloth, noting the keneh, and keneh bosem references amongst others in this regard independent of Benet . Interestingly, Immanuel Löw, referred to an ancient Jewish Passover recipe that called for wine to be mixed with ground up saffron and hasisat surur, which he saw as a “a kind of deck name for the resin the Cannabis sativa” (Low, 1924). Low suggests that this preparation was also made into a burnable and fragrant concoction by being combined with Saffron and Arabic Gum (Low, 19261967).
Botanist William Emboden the “shamanistic Ashera priestesses of pre-reformation Jerusalem… anointed their skins with… [a cannabis] mixture as well as burned it” (Emboden 1972).
http://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=nav…william+emboden
4) Second, the fact that the Mishnah used a different word spelled with different Hebrew characters to reference marijuana lends support to a conclusion that the rabbis did not think that the word “q’nah-bosem” was a reference to marijuana. This is not a situation where the words “qaneh” and “bosem” ceased to exist and were replaced by “qanabos.” The words “qaneh” and “bosem” continued to be used by Hebrew writers at the same time that “qanabos” came into the Hebrew vocabulary. And the words “qaneh” and “bosem” in post Biblical writings are not associated with hemp. Dr. Benet’s thesis that “q’nah-bosem” over time became “qanabos” is undermined by this continued use of “qaneh” and “bosem” to mean something other than “qanabos.”
D) Hebrew language changed throughout the period, just as English language has, compare words from just a few centuries ago. Such changes are even used to decipher the different periods texts were written in. The term qanabos is an obvious etymological evolutionary cognate development of q’aneh bosem. The term q’aneh bosem itself means “fragrant cane”, both words came to be used independently. Kaneh, meaning cane in references to the useful stalks of cannabis, came to be a generic term for stalks used for measuring, and the term later came to denote a measure. Bosem continued in its role as a reference to fragrance.
5) Third, the support for linking “qanabos” to “q’nah-bosem” is not particularly strong. Of the six letters in the two Hebrew words “q’nah-bosem” (Hebrew words do not include the vowels), that is, the letters “qof,” “nun,” “hey,” “bet,” “shin,” and “mem,” only three of them appear in the word “qanabos.” The letters shared are qof, nun, and bet. The letters hey, shin, and mem are not shared. Further, the word “qanabos” contains the letters “vav” and “samech,” letters not contained in the earlier “q’nah-bosem.” Given that three letters from the earlier word are left out and two letters are supplied, in a five letter word, does not provide great confidence to me that the source word for “qanabos” is “q’nah-bosem,” even if the sounds are somewhat the same.
While I acknowledge that the loss of the “hey” and the inclusion of the “vav” may be due to shifts in spelling, and while I acknowledge that the letters “shin” and “samech” sometimes cross over into each other’s territory, I am at a loss to explain the loss of “mem.” The “mem” in “bosem” is not a plural or other additive to a stem as it is in “elohim,” as some sites wrongly state. It is the basic stem of the word.
But an even bigger problem exists when one realizes how shaky the historical connection really is. Once, in the 15th century B.C., if one accepts a traditional dating for Moses, or in the 5th or 6th century B.C., if one accepts a post-exilic view of the dating for the Torah, the term “q’nah-bosem” is used. This is the only use of this term ever cited. The term does not appear again in ancient Hebrew. Somewhere around 200 A.D., in the Mishnah the word “qanabos” appears in the tractate Kil’ayim and in the tractate Nega’im. There is no evidence that the term “q’nah-bosem” or any intermediate forms of the term were ever used by the Hebrews during the intervening 7 to 17 centuries between the time the term was used in Exodus and when the new term appeared in the Mishnah. But we are asked to believe that the similarities of sounds in a word used centuries before supports a conclusion that it was the derivative of the word “qanabos.” Borrowing from the prophets, this is a shaky reed.
E) This linguistic shift is not hard to understand when you take into account that much of the Hebrew language was transmitted orally. First, it should be noted that Tim is clearly being disingenuous with his presentation. Benet clearly refers to the term q’neh being used without bosem in Song of Songs 4:14, Isaiah 43:24, Jeremiah 6:20, Ezekiel 27:19. The combined term q’neh bosem itself only appears in Exodus 30:23
Tim’s language problems disappear when the intervening use of q’eneh put forth by Benet are included. As Tim notes, the loss of the ‘hey’ in q’aneh and the inclusion of the ‘vav’ in qanabos “may be due to shifts in spelling”.
Further, the indications from the references to q’aneh cited by Benet, which Tim fails to acknowledge, indicate that use of the plant fell into disfavour and it was eventually prohibited. So its not like that cannabis or its name was widely being used.
7)Fifth, cannabis or hemp has long been a source of rope and yet the words for rope or cord in the Hebrew have no correlation to the term “qaneh.”
Nor do the terms in the English language. Quite likely the cannabis that came as an item of Trade, came at a point the Hebrews had already come up with some sort of rope of their own. Other researchers have however, seen the use of cannabis fibres in both the more ancient and Midrashic periods of Judaism. As Benet noted “Another piece of evidence regarding the use of word kaneh in the sense of hemp rather than reed is the religious requirement that the dead be buried in kaneh shirts. Centuries later linen was substituted for hemp (Klien 1908)” referring to Sigfried Kleins TOD UND BEGRABNIS IN PALISTINA. We can also point to the references to shesh noted by the 19th century Biblical scholar John Kitto, as referred to above. Religious scholar, Dr. Marinus de Waal, has commented that parts of the holy sanctuary made by Moses, under the Lords command, utilized the fibres of the hemp plant;
“Fabric from hemp fibre was used by the ancient Israelites for clothing, but was later replaced for this purpose by cotton and linen. It was more often cultivated for its strong fibers and hemp seed, used in carpets and rope. The latter was used in the days of Moses for making the sanctuary:”‘And let every wise-hearted man among you come, and make all that the Lord hath commanded…the hangings of the court, the pillars thereof, and their sockets, and the screen for the gate of the court; the pins of the tabernacle, and the pins of the court, and their cords…’-(Exodus 35:10,17,18)” (De Waal 1994)
8)Sixth, Dr. Benet’s speculation is perhaps the best an etymologist can do, but it is hardly “proof” of the conclusion that “q’neh-bosem” is the source for “qanabos.” Several web sources state that Dr. Benet’s conclusions were confirmed by the Hebrew University in 1960; but no one seems to be able to say who at the Hebrew University provided the confirmation. Hebrew University is a big place. Unverifiable facts do not build credence to claims. As stated above, Raphael Mechoulam of Hebrew University suggests a different etymology, though he is far more cautious in asserting that his conclusion is the definitive statement on the issue
G) This is a fair point, the source of the Hebrew University reference was one Dean Latimer, in an article that appeared in High Times,
“ Around 1980, etymologists at Hebrew University in Jerusalem confirmed that cannabis is mentioned in the Bible by name, Kineboisin (also spelled Kannabosm), in a list of measured ingredients for “an oil of holy ointment, an ointment compound after the art of apothecary’ to be smeared on the head. The word was mistranslated in king James version as ‘calamus’ .- Exodus 30:23”(Latimer 1988)
and when I was a less experienced researcher. I quoted Latimer, then later tried to track it down to no avail, even attempting to contact Latimer, but I never received a response, so it goes unverified at this point. However, as noted above, in my response (C) there is considerable and widespread academic support for Benet’s work, as well as my own contributions to this line of research.
I will give tim time to respnd to those comments, then continue with points 9-14
Chris, it seems that Tim is on vacation or something, maybe you can just continue with 9-14, he double hockey sticks may freeze over before he responds…thank you brother Bennett.
Tim,
What about mari & juan, you know Mary and john? One would really have to be blind to miss this
No point, my other reponses are not posted, and Eric, has written me stating many of my point by point responses have and will be deleted.
It says “comments are open” but that is a LIE.
The truth is the fist victim at http://www.truthsaves.org
Chris, it is a lie to say that “many of your point-by-point responses” have been deleted. Some inconsequential posts were deleted (such as your insults which accuse us of suppressing the truth), and, as I’ve said before, I will not post multi-page comments that are excerpts from articles posted elsewhere online. I specifically told you in a personal email that we have saved your comments. They are in queue, and as we have time to respond to them we will post them along with our responses.
This article is but a small part of what we do here at https://truthsaves.org. Our main goal is to bring others to a knowledge of the Jesus of the Bible. Our testimonies, articles and poems trump this in terms of importance and we have many things to post. We post them as we get to them. In fact, I have over 60 things that I have yet to post on the site. I can only get to them as I have time.
Those who contribute to this site work full time. We have many other responsibilities as well, as do most people. This site is not our full-time job. It is something we take seriously, but something we take care of in our spare time. This debate is low on our list of priorities. But we will attempt to address your points as we have time.
Your comments are being held in queue at this time because I do not provide this space for people to advance their own personal causes. If you want to link to an article you’ve written, feel free. But don’t post multi-page articles here because they will not be accepted. In other words, your multi-page comments will not be posted. Take that as you will.
And because we do not reply to your comments immediately has no bearing on whether or not we want to promote truth. The truth is, indeed, what we’re after.
I am glad you offer your time for this site. I would like to say that I grew up going to Christian education my whole life and have never even heard of this debate before. I find Chris Bennett’s contributions fascinating and hope you DO put in his multi-page comments.
What is obvious to true believers is not so obvious to disinterested parties. As with many issues of word morphology, one can find scholars on many sides of this issue. The scholars one chooses sometimes is driven by the conclusion one wishes to make.
I have not read Immanual Low. Perhaps you have and can explain to me the basis for his conclusion. I have provided to you the bases for my conclusions. There is nothing in the pages of Scripture that would lead one to equate marijuana with “kaneh.” Scripture does not indicate that “kaneh” was used for smoking, ingestion, ropes, clothing, or other common uses of hemp. Nor are there any other Hebrew writings before the time of Christ that link “kaneh” to marijuana. We only know what words mean by how they were used.
However, there is strong evidence that the Jews equated the word with “calamus,” as I state in the article. The 72 Jewish scholars assembled in the third century B.C. said that “kaneh” meant “calamus.” Josephus in the first century A.D. said the same thing. There is NO evidence that any Jewish scholar at that time thought the word meant “cannabis.”
Such ancient evidence, in my view, is more persuasive than any analysis done by scholars in modern times. But as I note in my article, not even modern scholars uniformly accept the position of Immanual Low. In the face of competing scholarship in the modern world, the unanimous conclusion of those who had reason to know what the word meant is even more persuasive. And supporting the view of the ancient Jewish scholars is Scripture itself. The word “kaneh” is associated with rushes and water (Isaiah 19:6; 35:7; Job 40:21), something more consistent with a reed or calamus plant than with marijuana.
One final note. The thrust of Scripture is neither about calamus or marijuana. The thrust of Scripture is about Jesus Christ. The focus of our lives as Christians needs to be on Him, living out His commands, denying ourselves and taking up our cross and following Him (Matthew 16:24). If our desire in life is to know, love, and follow Him, then we will find our lives blessed by His presence in our lives. Whether the word “kaneh” means “calamus” or “cannabis” is of no importance when compared to the importance of trusting in Him and doing His commands.
Eric: “Chris, it is a lie to say that your responses have been deleted. ”
Is it really? Here is what one of your emails said,
“One comment was deleted initially (the first excessively long one). I have also deleted a few comments that were inconsequential, like you saying, “I repeated this or that.”
I can tell you that your long comments will probably not be posted. If you want to link to an article, that’s fine. ”
Hopefully this is not anothe rpost that will not be included here.
In response to te misinformation posted on this site, I have prepared a point by point debate that is posted here:
http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/node/20688#comment-13136
Independent support for Benet’s view of the Semitic origins of the term kaneh can be found in THE WORD: THE DICTIONARY THAT REVEALS THE HEBREW SOURCE OF ENGLISH, by Isaac E. Mozeson. In reference to Hebrew kaneh, Mozeson follows a similar view to Benet’s that the “so-called IE root kanna… is admitted to be “of Semitic origin”….the IE word kannabis (hemp – a late IE word borrowed from an unknown source)” (Mozeson, 1989)….KANBOOS is an early post biblical term for hemp… The word HEMP is traced to Greek kannabis and Persian kannab… The ultimate etymon is conceded by Webster’s to be “a very early borrowing from a non-IE, possibly Semitic language…. In seeking related words… consider Aramaic… KENABH… and [Hebrew] KANEH…” (Mozeson, 1989) Interestingly Mozeson makes no reference to calamus in the context of the term kaneh.
Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan has noted of early Kabalistic magical schools who used magic and other means of communion for mystic exploration, that “some practices include the use of ‘grasses,’ which were possibly psychedelic drugs” (Kaplan, 1993). As mentioned earlier, Kaplan’s THE LIVING TORAH includes cannabis as a possible candidate for the Hebrew keneh bosem, “due to cognate pronunciation” (Kaplan, 1981). The Kabalistic text the Zohar records:
“There is no grass or herb that grows in which G-d’s wisdom is not greatly manifested and which cannot exert great influence in heaven” and “If men but knew the wisdom of all the Holy One, blessed be He, has planted in the earth, and the power of all that is to be found in the world, they would proclaim the power of their L-rd in His great wisdom.” (Zohar.2,80B)
Like the Zoroastrian royalty and priesthood, there are indications that early Kabbalists enjoyed the use of the herb, but prevented its consumption by the common people. In the P’sachim, “Rav Yehudah says it is good to eat… the essence of hemp seed in Babylonian broth; but it is not lawful to mention this in the presence of an illiterate man, because he might derive a benefit from the knowledge not meant for him.- Nedarim, fol. 49, col. 1” (Harris, et al., 2004). Other sources have noted a Kabbalistic comparison to the effects of cannabis with divine perception, noting an “intriguing reference to cannabis in the context of a fleeting knowledge of God: Zohar Hadash, Bereshit, 16a (Midrash ha-Ne’elam)” (Gross, et al., 1983).
Throughout the bible scriptures, men go into smokey tents and come out prophetic.
Isaiah Becomes a Prophet by having a ‘coal’ held to his lips. A smoking bud of cannabis could definitely be considered a ‘coal’.
Herbs were made by the Creator and said to be ‘good’.
Who would it be, that would say otherwise?
‘ marijuana does not have heads of grain’ is an untruth. Sometimes it has one huge head of grain at the top of the plant. The head, if pollinated, can contain hundreds of ultra nutritious seed. If cannabis has it’s top nipped, it branches out and forms several ‘heads’. I have SEEN a plant that has been pruned so that it formed several heads, and looked very similar to a menorah.
Several heads of grain, vs one head of grain is most certainly a sign of abundance.
Thanks for the information. There is a point with language that should be kept in mind. The origin of words and the meaning of words do not have a one to one correlation. A modern word can have its origin in an ancient word that means something entirely different from the modern word. For instance, today we have sugar cane, cannon, channels, and various other words that scholars trace back to the word “kaneh.” See http://www.getwords.com/words/index/getwords/view_unit/13/?letter=C&spage=1 But it would be a mistake to think that “kaneh” meant sugar cane, cannons, channels or other similar meanings to the ancient Hebrews.
There are somethings we know and somethings we have to hold with some degree of uncertainty. We know that the word “kanebos” means marijuana. We know this word first appears in post-Biblical times. As I state in my article, I suspect that this word came into the Hebrew from the Greek “kannabis” which word exists in extent literature long before the word “kanebos” appears in the Hebrew vocabulary. But where the origin of the word goes from there, as you point out, is not known. As you note, Webster’s states that it possibly has a Semitic root and Mozeson states that one should consider “kaneh” as a possibly related word. But both of these sources indicate the degree of uncertainty that exists with respect to the etymology of the word.
However, there is not a similar decree of uncertainty with respect to the meaning of the word “kaneh.” A word’s meaning is always known by its usage. And, in the Bible, the word “kaneh” is never used in a way that one can say: “Hey, that is clearly hemp!” Nor is it so used in modern Hebrew. In fact, no where in Hebrew literature have I been able to find where “kaneh” is used in a way that clearly in the passage means “marijuana.” But the word is used in the Biblical literature in ways that strongly indicate a reed and water plant. And to this day, in modern Hebrew, the word means reed plant. Further, as stated earlier, the Jews who lived during the Biblical time period and knew what the word meant tell us that it meant “calamus,” a reed plant.
Nevertheless, if you believe that “kaneh” means marijuana, such belief will neither get you to heaven nor condemn you to hell. In the face of eternity, the issue is of minimal importance. Jesus is the one who is important. We want to be followers of Him, to love as He loved, to give of ourselves and our lives for others. He taught us that if we are thirsty, we can come to Him and drink richly of the water of heaven itself. He came to bring us abundant life. And he offers this life freely to people like you and me, to everyone who will abandon themselves to receive Him, to those who make following Him their life purpose.
It is lame that most of my posts are appearing and that you post comments, which my posts discout, like the above. Again, this is disengenuous.
The identical use of Assyrian Qunubu to the Biblical Q’aneh bosem, also lend to the identification of cannabis.
In ancient Mesopotamia cannabis was used both medicinally and oils and incenses were prepared from the plant because its “aroma was pleasing to the Gods” (Meissner 1925). In the second quarter of the first millennium B.C., the “word qunnabu (qunapy, qunubu, qunbu) begins to turn up as for a source of oil, fiber and medicine”(Barber 1989). In our own time, numerous scholars have come to acknowledge qunubu as an early reference to cannabis .
Recipes for cannabis incense, regarded as copies of much older versions, were found in the cuneiform library of the legendary Assyrian king Assurbanipal, and records from the time of his father Esarhaddon, cannabis, ‘qunubu’ as one of the main ingredients of the “sacred rites”. In a letter written in 680 BC to the mother of the Assyrian king, Esarhaddon, reference is made to qu-nu-bu. In response to Esarhaddon’s mother’s question as to “What is used in the sacred rites”, a high priest named Neralsharrani responded that “the main items…. for the rites are fine oil, water, honey, odorous plants (and) hemp [qunubu].”
Apparently cannabis was used not only as an incense but in topical lotions as well. An Assyrian medical tablet from the Louvre collection has been transliterated: “So that god of man and man should be in good rapport:—with hellebore, cannabis and lupine you will rub him.” (Russo 2005)
I don’t think kenh bosem is a Seemtic word, I quoted someone who did. My view, like that of anthropologist Weston La Barre, is that keneh is the Semetic adoption of a Indo-European word for cananbis, “kanna”. As described in Jeremiah 6:20 and Ezekiel 27:19 keneh came as an item of trade, as such it retained the name from its origin. Further these passages exclude the possibilityof calamus, as it was a common marsh plant indigenous to the area, not a precious item of trade, as was cannabis.
Tim “Nevertheless, if you believe that “kaneh” means marijuana, such belief will neither get you to heaven nor condemn you to hell.”
There is no such thing as either Heaven or Hell, they are not part of Judaism, (they have the pit of Sheol) and came to Chrsitianity, like much of the restof their mythos, via the Zoroastrians. On the origins of Heaven and Hell, from Cannabis and the Soma Solution:
The Book of Arda Wiraz Namag takes place in a period where the Mazdaean religion was in the state of confusion and people were in doubt of the faith. In reaction to this the religious leaders gathered together in order to find a solution and the decision was that they needed to seek word from spiritual realm, using the time tested technique of ingestion of mang. The Priests gathered together 7 of the most righteous men in the community, and then through a picking of lots, Arda Wiraz was selected. After enjoying a luxurious last meal and saying goodbye to his 7 wives, the Book of Arda Wiraz continues with the account:
And this Viraz washed (his) head and (his) body, and put on a new garment; perfumed (himself) with an agreeable perfume, spread a new, clean blanket on some appropriate boards. At a (given) moment (he) sat down on the clean blanket, and performed the (rite of sacrifice), and remembered (the departed) souls, and ate food. And afterwards the theologians of the Religion filled three golden cups with wine and with the Vishtaspian narcotic [mang], and they gave one cup over to Viraz (in conformity) with the ‘good thought’, and the second cup (in conformity) with the ‘good speech’, and the third cup (in conformity) with the ‘good deed’. And he drank that wine and narcotic and consciously said grace and fell asleep on the blanket. (The Book of Artay Viraz, 2.25-31)
Arda Viraf drinks “three gold cups with wine and ‘vistaspic’ hemp (in other words hemp extract)…has some time to thank consciousness, and then falls asleep on the gown. He sleeps for seven days and nights, and during this time his soul visits heaven and hell” (Nyberg, 1938). After partaking of an extremely strong psychedelic dose of mang Ardu Viraf lay in what appeared to outsiders as a deathlike coma and had a classic out-of-body-experience, in which the ancient psychonaut believed he traveled on the mythical Cinvat bridge to Heaven where he witnessed: “All dwell among fine carpets and cushions in great pleasure and joy….Viraf, after returning to the bridge, was then taken to hell that he might see the lot of the wicked…He saw the ‘greedy jaws of hell, like the most frightful pit.’ Everyone in hell is packed in so tight that life is intolerable, yet all believe that they are alone…” (Hinnels, 1973).
Referring to Ardu Viraf’s hemp inspired heavenly voyage, Mircea Eliade wrote, “…we must take… into consideration the symbolic value of narcotic intoxication. It was equivalent to a ‘death’, the intoxicated person left his body, acquired the conditions of ghosts and spirits. mystical ecstasy being assimilated to a temporary ‘death’ or leaving the body, all intoxicants that produced the same were given a place amongst the techniques of ecstasy” (Eliade 1964). “The most explicit detailed Iranian account of intoxication for religious purposes is the Arda Wiraz Namag… [it] demonstrates the belief that pharmacologically induced visions were the means to religious knowledge and that they were at the basis of the religion that the Magi claimed to have received from Zoroaster” (Flattery & Schwartz 1989).
The thing about the Tree of Life movement is its not about any imagery afterlife, but about the real life here on this planet, and the beautiful plant that can heal both humanity and the Earth we call home.
ooop, I meant imaginary. I don’t beleive in imaginary beings, the tree of life is about what we can do here in reality.
There was a man who was very wealthy and many lands, who had a bumper crop of grain. He wondered what to do and decided to tear down his adequate barns and build bigger ones to hold his crop, then eat, drink and enjoy life. Jesus said he was a fool, because that night his soul would be required of him (Luke 12:18-21). At another place, Jesus asked what it would profit a person if he gained the whole world and lost his own soul, or what would a person give in exchange for his soul (Matthew 16:26).
Daniel speaks of a coming day when some would rise to everlasting life and others to shame and everlasting contempt (Daniel 12:2). Job says that after the worms destroy his body he knows that in his flesh he would see God (Job 19:25-27). The Psalmist speaks of God guiding him with God’s counsel, and afterward receiving him to glory (Psalm 73:24). The Psalmist also states that the Lord would not leave his soul in hell (Psalm 16:10). The Pharisees believed in a heaven and hell. Jesus taught that He would raise up on the last day those who believe in Him (John 6:39-40). Jesus taught us to lay up treasure in heaven where it is safely stored (Matthew 6:19-21). Jesus taught that there were rewards in heaven for those who follow Him, and punishment in hell for those who do evil (Matthew 25:31-46).
Christianity is not sourced in Zoroastrism, but in the Old Testament. And the Old Testament itself condemns the practices of the nations around in their religious practices. The fact that the Assyrians may have used marijuana probably is good reason to think that the prophets of Scripture were against it. There is not much in the surrounding cultures that the Old Testament finds to be positive.
But while the prophets condemned the practices of the nations around them, they spoke of a coming Messiah. Isaiah teaches that there would be a redeemer, one who would cover over our sins as prophesied by Moses, one who would free us and bring us peace. There is no doctrine in the New Testament that has its source in Zoroastrism. They are all sourced in the Old Testament.
This is not to say that you have to believe any of these things. Each person is free to believe what they want. But for those of us who believe that there is a right and a wrong and it is important to think rightly (which given the effort you have placed into your argument you demonstrate that you also believe), it is important to get the purpose of life right.
There has been a consistent story told for 3400 years about a God who created us, loved us, who sought us in our sin, who redeemed us, and calls us to Himself. I do not lightly throw that story away as a myth to be ignored. The call of the prophets, the lives of the saints, and the testimony of God’s people is to me a compelling story. The weight of such testimony in the light of history and the goodness of Jesus in the face of the inhumanity of humanity provide to me a strong reason to give the testimony of Scripture a hearing. And having given it a hearing and having come to acknowledge it as true, my life has been truly enriched and blessed. And this is without any use of marijuana, other drugs, or alcohol. I have experienced the abundant life Jesus promised. I am very happy in this life, being enriched whether by myself or with my many friends. And this is true notwithstanding an ongoing battle with cancer. I am truly blessed. Having tasted of His goodness here, I only want others to have the same opportunity to find the same joy and peace and life that is overflowing that I have found in Jesus Christ and to be ready for the judgment to come.
Re, the “72” translators of the Old Testament text. ( you know Testament come sform the same root as testicle right?) Well these supposed translators Tim identifies were not very good, as the Vulgate is well known for its mistranslations, and this has been noted in numbers of books. Such as The Vulgate the Source of False Doctrines?, by, G. Henslow.
http://books.google.ca/books?id=p2-eBmwaXwEC&pg=PA2&dq=vulgate+mistranslations#v=onepage&q=vulgate%20mistranslations&f=false
Re, the “72” translators of the Old Testament text. ( you know Testament come sform the same root as testicle right?) Well these supposed translators Tim identifies were not very good, as the Vulgate is well known for its mistranslations, and this has been noted in numbers of books. Such as The Vulgate the Source of False Doctrines?, by, G. Henslow.
http://books.google.ca/books?id=p2-eBmwaXwEC&pg=PA2&dq=vulgate+mistranslations#v=onepage&q=vulgate%20mistranslations&f=false
In regards to the “72” translators of the Old Testament text: (I wonder if Tim knows the term “Testament” come sform the same root as testicle?). Well these supposed translators Tim identifies were not very good, as both the Septuagint and Vulgate are well known for their mistranslations, and this has been noted in numbers of books, such asthe Hebrew Bible and ancient versions: selected essays of Robert P. Gordon?
http://books.google.ca/books?id=SPKam-0tPwYC&pg=PA176&dq=Septuagint+mist…
and The Vulgate the Source of False Doctrines?, by, G. Henslow:
http://books.google.ca/books?id=p2-eBmwaXwEC&pg=PA2&dq=vulgate+mistransl…
It is a great assumption on Tim’s part, that the translators of the Hebrew text into Greek, would have been competent botanists. By the Biblical accounts, it was a rare and precious foreign item. That a mistake could be made is clearly plausible, and that is why there is so much controversy around this particular term, with experts like Kaplan listing calamus, cinnamon bark, and cannabis as candidates. The above information regarding the identical use of qunubu amongst the Assyrians, strengthens the case for cannabis considerably, as does a wealth of other information, yet to be dealt with.
The number of 72 translators is likely a mythical number relating to the 72 names of God
The “72 Names of God”
There are three verses in the Old Testament which, in Hebrew, are made up of exactly the same number of letters. These are Exodus 14: 19-21.
14:19 And the angel of God, which went before the camp of Israel, removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face, and stood behind them:
14:20 And it came between the camp of the Egyptians and the camp of Israel; and it was a cloud and darkness [to them], but it gave light by night [to these]: so that the one came not near the other all the night.
14:21 And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the LORD caused the sea to go [back] by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea dry [land], and the waters were divided.
Kabbalists believe that by lining up each verse, one atop the other, and then selecting the three letters that are aligned from top to bottom (starting from the left, as Hebrew is written from left to right), one derives 72 “names of God”. The nature of these verses are such that they represent great power: the power of God to part waters and call forth his angels.
The “72 names” primarily appear in Jewish Kabbalah and are particularly prevalent in the current manifestation of Kabbalah taught through the “Kabbalah Centre” in Jerusalem. (www.kabbalah.com)
Like much of the Bible, this cannot be regarded as a historical event, but more likely a mythical one. How many Hebrews rely upon the Vulgate? The Vulgate is a Christian document. As well, the later references to cannabis, under the term q’aneh, indicate their was clear motivation for leading Hebrews to suppress the use of cannabis.
JONAH AND THE “GOURD” AT NINEVEH:
CONSEQUENCES OF A CLASSIC
MISTRANSLATION
Jules Janick
Department of Horticulture & Landscape Architecture, Purdue
University,
625 Agriculture Mall Drive, West Lafayette, IN 47907-2010
Harry S. Paris
Agricultural Research Organization, Newe Ya’ar Research Center,
P. O. Box 1021, Ramat Yishay 30-095, Israel
ADDITIONAL INDEX WORDS. Citrullus colocynthis, Lagenaria siceraria, Ricinus
communis, plant iconography
ABSTRACT. The fast-growing plant referred to in the biblical Book of Jonah is
most often translated into English as “gourd.” However, this is a mistranslation
that dates to the appended Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew
Bible, in which the Hebrew word qiqayon (castor, Ricinus communis,
Euphorbiaceae) was transformed into the somewhat similar-sounding Greek
word kolokynthi (colocynth, Citrullus colocynthis). In translation of the Greek
into Latin, kolokynthi became the similar-sounding cucurbita (gourd). This is
reflected in early iconography, the plant most often depicted being a long-fruited
Lagenaria siceraria (bottle or calabash gourd), a fast-growing climber.
Others have noted the many mistranslations in the earlier Septuagint as well
http://books.google.ca/books?id=SPKam-0tPwYC&pg=PA176&dq=Septuagint+mistranslations#v=onepage&q=Septuagint%20mistranslations&f=false
most notable is the mistranslation of the Hebrew word for “young woman” in Isaiah, to “virgin” in Greek, resulting in the later misbelief that the messiah must be born of a virgin.
Overall, I have to thank Tim for publishing his critique, he brought up some points that needed to address, and he added to the evidence of cannabis being kaneh, through his identification of the Genesis references and also the Temple of Solomon account.
I sincerly hope Tim follows this line of reasoning to its obvious conclusion. the time has come to put away the childish beliefs of our ancestors, and make way for the once and future Tree of Life.
The above comment represents a common misunderstanding in Christian and non-Christian circles about the Septuagint. The seventy two scholars did not translate all of the books we know as the Old Testament. They only translated the Torah, or the first five books. The rest of the books were translated later, though still before the time of Christ. Most scholars believe that the translations of the 72 were very good, and scholastic. Unfortunately, the rest of the books were not subject to the same critical scrutiny.
As for the Isaiah 7:14 passage, the “young woman” is the commonly accepted translation by many scholars. However, in looking at the use of the Hebrew word “almah” in ancient Hebrew, the matter is not so clear. Nowhere in the Old Testament is the word used clearly of a woman who has had sex, nor is such use even reasonably implied. The word is used to describe a woman who has reached puberty, marriageable, but not married. This holds open the possibility that “virgin” may not be such a wrong translation of the passage. I understand that some have argued that a different Hebrew word was used to denote “virgin,” but even that is debatable. There are Biblical passages where that second word is used that clearly refer to a woman who has had sex, something that never occurs with “almah,” the word used by Isaiah.
Interestingly, the Jews after the time of Christ were not enamored with the earlier translation here in the Isaiah passage. In later Greek translations of “almah” in the first and second centuries A.D., the Jews used a different Greek word “neanis” to translate the word, making clear to their readers that they thought the Hebrew word meant “young woman.” But the word used by the translators before the time of Christ was the Greek word “parthenos” a word that commonly means “virgin.” This translation, occuring before the time of Christ, was not a result of Christian theology, but represents pre-Christian Jewish thought. It cannot be simply swept away as a bad Jewish translation, unless one’s theological position forecloses the possibility that it may have been an accurate understanding of pre-Christian Jews.
http://sabdiscussionboard.yuku.com/topic/4124
The OT supposedly took its form in a version known as the Septuagint, a word that means ‘the seventy’ because the myth is that it was miraculously translated inerrant simultaneously by six representative translators from each of the tribes of Israel. It is the oldest known surviving version of the OT. This should actually would mean there were seventy-two translators, not seventy but there is a bigger problem with the myth.
You see the translation was done ~285-246 BCE at the request of Ptolemy II for the library of Alexandria.
And, according to Jewish history, ten of the tribes of israel had been lost during the Babylonina captivity which lasted from ~ 930-537 BCE.
Which means that ten of the tribes of Israel no longer existed to send translators for Ptolemy. So there were no seventy or seventy-two translators, at most there could have been twelve, six from each of the surviving tribes.
The whole basis for the oldest version of the OT is a myth, i.e: a lie.
Part 2 of the Great Keneh Bosem Debate:
http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/node/20803
In Part 1 of The Great Keneh Bosem Debate, we discussed a critical essay at the Christian website http://www.truthsaves.org “Does the Bible talk about Marijuana?” which raised some questions about the correctness of the research of the Polish anthropologist Sula Benet, regarding the identity of the Hebrew term Keneh bosem with cannabis One of the more notable points of contention I have with the Truth-Saves article, is that the author only chose to use one of the five references that Sula Benet referred too, and when we examine these references in their context an identification with cannabis becomes even more clear. More over these other references also answer the inevitable question “If cannabis played such an important role in the Hebrew religion, how did it come to disappear?”
http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/node/20803
http://ahura.homestead.com/files/IranZaminSeven/F_Influence_on_Religions_link.pdf
This is a good article explaining the influence of Zoroastrianism on other religions.
I don’t agree on all points, but this is very good. Nearly every serious scholar of ancient religious history agrees that the Zoroastrians had impact on other religions.
Chris,
The facts are not so clear that the Septuagint is a myth. While I will not defend some of the more supernatural claims of later writers with respect to the Septuagint translation, the allegation that the tribes were not known at the time of Ptolemy II (the sponsor of the Septuagint) is inaccurate historically. Certainly, the northern tribes of Israel had gone into captivity in 722 B.C. This, however, does not mean that their identity was lost at this time. There is a great deal of evidence to support a conclusion that the identity of the tribes had not been lost at this time. I will provide some of that evidence.
Tobit, who wrote around the time of Ptolemy II identifies himself as of the tribe of Naphtali (Tobit 1:1). Judith, a book written a century later, identifies Uzziah as being of the tribe of Simeon (Judith 6:15). Anna, in the book of Luke, is identified as being from the tribe of Asher (Luke 2:36). James sends his little letter to the twelve tribes that were scattered (James 1:1), indicating that at that time they were scattered, but not lost.
Further support for that fact that twelve tribes existed and were known in the 3rd century B.C. is contained in the Dead Sea Scrolls. The War Scroll speaks of all of the tribes, with their future chiefs, many times. Fragment 1 of 4Q372 and in 4 Q371, written after the time of Ptolemy II, speaks of the northern tribes coming to repentance after their captivity and indicating that they had not been lost at that time. In the Temple Scroll, we are told of future work to be done by each of the twelve tribes, with specific tasks assigned to each tribe, again indicating that the tribes were not “lost” at that time.
Further, we have the testimony of Aristeas, who wrote in the 2nd century B.C., who gives the account of Ptolemy’s request for the translation within approximately 100 years of when the request was made. Even if you discount his account, you must agree that Aristeas thought that the identity of the 12 tribes existed. His account purports to be historical, and to be believable in his day the tribes had to have existed.
One does not have to accept “calamus” as being the proper translation of “kaneh.” However, one’s rejection of “calamus” cannot stand on the basis of historical evidence. It must be based on other evidence, such as etymology. This is because the best historical record that exists supports the claim that 72 scholars translated out the Torah, the first five books, as Aristeas tells us. And they chose “calamus,” not “cannibas,” for the translation. Further, they had every reason to know what the Hebrew text actually meant, since the anointing oil was still being made at that time.
I continue to believe that the strength of this historical evidence trumps what I see as weak etymological evidence on the issue of what “kaneh” means. You, of course, are free to disagree.
But I would invite you to consider Jesus Christ. A close and personal relationship with Him is far more rewarding and fulfilling than any marijuana. As He Himself said, He came to give us life and to give it more abundantly. Paul’s great prayer in Ephesians 3 is that the Ephesians may know the extent of God’s love which passes all understanding. There is a place with Christ that is rich and deeply satisfying, and will make all that is in this world seem empty.
Of course we know that man shall not live by bread alone, and that food for belly and belly for food, both shall be destroyed anyway. In the resurrection when believers are raised and given the spirit bodies from Yah, there will not be any need for food, sex, marriage or cannabis. All these are only for this side of eternity, and for those who survive and remain natural humans in the millenium. But while in this tent, let ground-nut eaters eat, and let cannabis chewers be! In all things we do, lets do to the esteem of Him who gave Himself for us. Let us repent from commandment-breaking (which is sin) and fornication (which pollutes the temple of Yah).
Marijuana in the Bible is the Tree of Life and the Way of Redemption for our Health, Wealth and the Fallen State of our Souls with cognate study of KNH, BSM & MKNH in the literal Word with Genesis 4:1; 14:19,22; 1st Kings 14:15, Ezekiel 31:9, Matthew 11:7, Luke 7:24 for the revelatory Word.
The ultimate conspiracy is the falsification of the Word of God by antichrist priests and is unrelenting to this day. But the Genuine Truth of the Word is revealed through the ministry of a prophet of the Holy Writ and is presented for curing this worldwide ignorance for free. All references in the Hebrew Word to the cognate KNH are to the cannabis, hemp or marijuana in the Bible along with the Aramaic Gospels and Revelation where this term spoken by our Lord is KNYH. The Jews falsified this word as “calamus” in the Greek Septuagint which is the authoritative Greek translation of the Hebrew Word. This falsification is sustained by the Greek or Hellenized Christianity. The original tongue of the Gospels and Revelation was Aramaic and so were the first texts of that Word. KNYH in the Aramaic cognate is falsified into “calamus” by the Greek Gospels and Revelation to continue this conspiracy that came to be termed the “disciplina arcani” or discipline of the secret. And by the Divine Providence to protect men from profaning the holy but now that the Last Judgment occurred on June 19th, 1770 the Lord has provided that profanations will not take place. In Apocalypse Explained (1757) Passage 375 [5] & [6] http://www.heavenlydoctrines.org
Anna,
The age of Zoroastrianism is subject to some debate. The traditional date of its inception is the sixth century B.C., a date established by those writing shortly after Alexander the Great, who stated that Zoroaster lived 258 years before Alexander. Recent scholarship has pushed the date back on the basis of comparison of textual language. How one views the weight of this linguistic evidence verses the historical statements of early followers of the religion determines what date one assigns to the founding of the religion. If the traditional date is right, then it is not likely that Zoroastrianism influenced ancient Judaism. And since Christianity is sourced in the Jewish prophets, it is hard to sustain a position that Christianity borrowed from Zoroastrianism, if one follows the traditional dating for the founding of the religion.
If Zoroastrianism dates back to the 10th century B.C. as some assert, it is still after the time of Moses, and therefore cannot be said to be an influence on the first five books of the Scriptures. And the first five books of the Scriptures provide the foundation for the rest of Scripture. I do not find any support within Scripture for a doctrine not sourced in the first five books of Moses. Therefore, I am skeptical of any claim that a later religion impacted Judaism or Christianity. It is almost like saying that Islam impacted Christianity, although all of the books Christians hold as their truth existed before Islam arose. The logic simply does not follow. The Torah could not have been influenced by Zoroastrianism unless Zoroaster lived before Moses and Moses knew about Zoroastrianism, both of which seem unlikely.
Moses, through his writing of the Torah, establishes much of what Christianity and Judaism believe. He establishes that God is one, the rewarder of good and the punisher of evil. He establishes the sacrificial system and the need for atonement. He establishes the promise of a coming Messiah. He promises that God will provide atonement (a covering for sin) for His people. He establishes that this life is not all that there is; there is a life to come.
Of course, one can find many sites by those who have a bias towards Zoroastriansim that will postulate that Zoroastrianism was the source of all sorts of matters, just like you can find many sites by those who have a bias towards Christianity who advance things that simply are not true. What we know is that the Apostle Paul, who laid down the groundwork and foundation of Christianity, was influenced most by the Hebrew Scriptures, in which Scriptures he was well trained, having been a student of the great rabbi, Gamaliel. Christianity is ultimately what Jesus and Paul taught, who both were rabbis steeped in Jewish tradition. There is no solid evidence that either of them had the slightest exposure to Zoroastrianism.
Beg to differ! Yahushua did not come to proclaim christianity. HE came to make the Torah great and esteemed. Christianity, being a syncretism of ancient pagan whore-ship mixed with varying degrees of truth has consciously shot down the laws of Yahuwah. Thus christians eat pork with no qualms, and whore-ship on sun-day,observe santa’s (satan anagram!) sartunalis xmas and Ashtaroth’s easter, while scorning the unchangeable feasts of the immutable mighty Yahuwah. Shaul(Paul) always upheld the Torah, so a false “letter to the Galatians” had to be forged in his name in order to entrap the people of the Most High in a false religion. Judaism is not of Yah! HE never gave His people a religion. HE gave them a charge, commands, statutes and laws. Because of disobedience, He brought in the levitical priesthood and animal sacrifices, both of which Yahushua brought to an end when
the Gnostic tractate, The Apocryphon of John, has Jesus make mention of Zoroaster’s teachings himself, declaring to John the son of Zebedee: “if you wish to know them, it is written in the book of Zoroaster.” The main teachings of the tractate are believed to have historically existed since 185 C.E., and was still in use up until the eighth century by the Audians of Mesopotamia (Wisse, 1988)-Nag Hammadi. By comparison, the NEW TESTAMENT in its present form was compiled between 367-397.
Another tractate that was popular with early Gnostics had the title of Zostrianos, and the author has been identified as a person in “the lineage of the famous Persian magus Zoroaster” (Sieber 1988), and by others the Persian shaman Zoroaster himself; “[I]n the Nag Hammadi document Zostrianos,…the ancient Iranian prophet is [Zoroaster] portrayed, in accordance with the ideas of late antiquity, as the proclaimer of secret doctrines. His wisdom he obtains in the course of a heavenly journey which he experiences in the desert” (Rudolph 1987).
One of the more significant and widespread Gnostic sects, the Manicheans, which survived into the twelfth century in parts of Europe and China, worshipped Jesus right alongside Zoroaster, and performed ceremonies similar to the one that Jesus is described as presiding over. As noted in Chapter 9, Tocharian speaking people are thought to have brought the Manichean religion into China, and there the “general opinion of their religion was that it involved drug-induced ecstasy, for their leaders had titles like ‘spirit-king’ and ‘spirit-father’ and ‘spirit-mother,’ but the common folk deliberately mispronounced the word for ‘spirit’ (mo) as ‘ma,’ meaning ‘cannabis sativa’ (as if ‘Pater’ were changed phonetically to ‘pothead’)” (Ruck et al. 2001).
I would say the Zoroastrians influneced Christian concepts such as Christmas, (originally the Persian god Mithra’s birthday), End of the World, the ressurection, heaven and hell, and many others.
Tim you make your statemnt above without considering the wealth of information to the otherwise, beyond etymological arguements, like the Assyrian use of Qunubu for temple incenses and annionting oils used to aid in the “rapport between man and god”. You also ignore references to the grains or seeds of q’aneh that you yourself brought forth, and referencs that q’aneh came from a distant land, where as calamus was a common marsh root in the area…
You can only make such a statemnt here due to the way you delete and hold my own comments in queu (over two weeks now….)
The annointing oil started to fall out with the playing down of the role of the Levites, and then finalized with Israels and Judah’s loss of atonomy. As I explain in Part 2 of the Great Keneh Bosem Debate
http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/node/20803
the further q’aneh references noted by Sula Benet, and ommitted in Tim’s biased presentation, tell the story of that dissapearance.
Tim, you say that Christianity is sourced from the Jewish prophets. We see in biblical scripture how Ezra is ‘planted’ by the Persian king, in order to make sure that the Jews in Jerusalem keep in line. (The Persian line) We see how the Persians are willing to help ‘rebuild the temple’. Have you addressed this biblical scripture and i missed something?
Cannabis can be considered a reed plant. It grows very well along rivers. The main stem is often hollow. It is often as sweet smelling as bubblegum, or flowers, or candy. It has glands on the leaf, that when removed is usually a beautiful golden honey color and is sticky. It definitely qualifies as a reed plant or a fragrant cane.
Cannabis also comes in ‘tree/bush’ form and size. It can express itself as a vine, either trailing or creeping.
Tim, you said:”There is one other aspect to this debate that often goes ignored. We have societies south of us in Mexico and other countries that are falling apart because of the drugs this country consumes. Our use of drugs is funding the murder and destruction of many people in other lands. We can wash our hands and say that it is not our fault that drugs are illegal here. However, I have a strong suspicion that when we stand before God, He will call us to account for our direct role in the slaughter of innocents by funding drug cartels. Whether we buy drugs or we fund terrorists by giving money to them, we share in the evil deeds that such people do. ”
It is my opinion that there will be an accounting for the destruction brought about by the WAR ON DRUGS. It IS our fault, that we have swallowed the lies about the dangers of Cannabis. It IS our fault that we’ve allowed the lies of individuals in government and elsewhere to result in the ruin the lives and families of people who are ‘caught’ harming no one and living their religion faithfully.
Unless you come out and specifically say that Cannabis is definitely NOT the ‘Tree’ that many Christians believe in, how can you condone the WAR that is being waged against them? The biggest drug cartels are the ‘legal’ ones which kill many more folks each year than Cannabis.
You seem to leave room for Cannabis Church folk maybe being correct. Which side of the fence? Which ‘side’ are you choosing to be on, when this ‘judgement’ that you have strong suspicions about, comes along?
When that day of judgement comes, might you be surprised to hear Jesus saying that he healed the blind (glaucoma?)and lepers,etc with the Tree that the priests were hoarding and that He died because he dared get in the face of the priests? That he was doing what the Creator intended, by bringing relief to the poor when the priests would not? What if he asks you if you defended his flock or caused it harm?
Now, alcohol kills and maims and destroys. Are you involved with any of that ‘destruction of innocents’? Do you suspect that there will be a judgement over those who are involved with that?
Your logic is actually troubling my soul.
Chris,
I know you are not saying that the Apocryphon of John was written before the New Testament books were written, at least I do not read you as stating this. All of the New Testament books were written long before 367 -397 A.D., and almost every authority I know will state that they all were written before, and most of them significantly before, the Apocryphon of John. It is hard historically to hold any other position. The Apostolic Fathers, those who lived in the time of Jesus’ apostles, show knowledge of 25 of the 27 New Testament books, omitting only the two short books of 2nd and 3rd John. They do not show knowledge of the gnostic texts, which texts all arose in the second century A.D. Ireneus, who has a direct line back to the apostles through his mentor Polycarp, the bishop of Smyrna, tells us that the Apocryphon of John was a forged document. He should know, as Polycarp was a friend of John’s and Ireneus grew up under Polycarp’s bishopric and was sent by Polycarp’s church to assist the mission to the Gauls. So, if anyone in the early church knew what John said, it should be Ireneus.
I do not know if you have read any of the gnostic texts, but they are nothing like the Old Testament and New Testament books. Most deal with “secret teachings,” which contradicts the statements of God and Christ in both Testaments. God does not tell us secret statements. Jesus said that whatever He taught, He taught openly. Christianity, as it was instituted by Jesus, is an open religion.
I realize that some have distorted the fellowship of Christ into some secret thing. But God did not reveal Himself to this world to be hidden from people, but He came to make Himself known to the world.
As for the influence of Persian thought on Christianity, I would argue to the contrary. I suspect that Daniel and the Jewish captives had a big influence on Persian thought. The concept of heaven and hell in Scripture arises long before Zoroastrism, Isaiah speaks of the destruction of the world in the 8th century B.C., and the resurrection was taught at least as far back as Job (Job 19) and David (Psalm 19). Ezra was not reflecting Persian thought, but the heart of the God of Israel as He had revealed Himself from the earliest days of written Scripture. The monotheism of God appears in every book of the Bible, including those written long before the exile. But you are right that what Scripture wrote and what the people of Israel practiced were not in agreement. Israel practiced polytheism, as we learn from the Pentateuch, the early prophets and the later prophets, as well as from the Psalms and historical books. But the patriarchs were monotheistic, as were the great leaders such as Moses, Joshua, Jephthah, Samuel, and David. And the prophets were all monotheistic.
Anna,
Scripture never says that Ezra was planted by the Persian king to ensure that the Israelites were kept in line. Have you read Ezra? And yes, I know something about cannabis, having had to cut it out of fields of corn, soybeans, and out of pastures where we grazed cattle. It is not a water plant, although it takes water to grow. I never knew it to grow in standing water like a marsh plant would grow. And though it may smell sweet to you, it never did to me. Your point on the problem of alcoholism is well taken. While it is not my goal or desire to seek a return to prohibition, I only note that we pay a high price in our society, and in many societies in the world, for the privilege to drink. My heart goes out to the families who have to bear the burden of that price in the memory of lost loved ones.
My argument is that there is something much better for our lives than marijuana or alcohol. That something is a personal relationship with the God of the universe, the maker of all things, Jesus Christ. Millions of people have found this to be true, while others accept a substitute or a facade of what Jesus has to offer. Christianity is not about some set of rules, but it is first and always about loving God, who came to us in the person of Jesus Christ, with all of our hearts, souls, strength, and mind, and loving our neighbors as Christ loved us. As we seek His kingdom to come and His will to be done, we find a peace beyond comprehension, and a joy that has no end. I encourage you to read some of the testimonies on the truthsaves site.
I talk to my friends about the bible all the time, I don’t believe that it talks about Marijuana in the bible, my mom and dad split apart because of Marijuana but are now back together, if smoking marijuana wasn’t bad it would never have the way of break families apart and people would not be put in jail for it, it also says in the bible obey the laws of the land, so clearly smoking marijuana is a sin unless you have cancer and you have it prescribed to you.
michael, that was prohibition and negative stigma that split your family and other families. Not marijuana. Jesus broke all sorts of laws.
Tim,
The Apocryphon of John was referred to by Irenaeus in Adversus Haereses, written about 185 CE, so it is at least older than that. The synoptic gospels are thought to have been written between 60 and 115 AD. The New testament however was not put into its present form till around 350 AD. So much was lost due to the murderous siege of early Catholocism, that led to the Dark Ages. so it is really hard to say what was around in that early period. Gnostic elements are pre-Christian and there is no reason to think that Jesus did not know Gnostics. There is an undeniable Persian infleunce in both Gnosticims and Christianity.
I have read all the Gnostic texts, the Church father’s condemnation of the Gnostics, and a number of books by Gnostic scholars, all of which are discussed in my book, Sex, Drugs, Violence and the Bible
http://www.forbiddenfruitpublishing.com/SexDrugs/Book
Articles on Jesus, the Gnostics and Cannabis
http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/1301.html
So its been months and still numbers of my posts have not been released “Your comment is awaiting moderation. ”
That is disinengenuous to say the least. Tim is hiding information in order to set his agenda.
Tim is not hiding information. I’m the administrator of this site and I decide which comments are posted and which are not. As I’ve said multiple times to you, I will not accept “comments” which are direct copy / pastes from other websites. People can go to your website to read your articles. I do not copy and paste my articles from my site onto your site or other sites. My site is for my articles – your site is for your articles. Your “comments” that are still awaiting moderation are direct quotations from your articles and in some cases are literally thousands of words. I will not post “comments” like these. I have given you this information multiple times.
Great now my posts are not just “waiting for moderation” they have been deleted.
That is kind of how the New Testament was put together too, in around 350 AD, lots of selective editing…..
Maybe you should change the title “comments are open” to “comments we agree with, or at least think we can sufficicently answer too, will be posted” ?
Chris, thanks for posting your comments.
I will tell you again, as well as other site readers, that multi-page comments that are direct quotations from an article on your site (or any other site) will not be accepted. In fact, your excessively long “comments” are what forced me to implement a character limit (3,000 characters allowed at this time). Many of your “copy and paste comments” were approaching 20,000 characters. If one googled portions of your “comments” they could be found as articles already posted on your site.
Again, you may use your own site for whatever you wish. My site is for my articles and for real comments. I will not allow you to use my webspace as a platform for advancing your agendas.
If you post a comment that’s a comment, and not a “cut n’ paste” from your site, and it’s under 3,000 characters, and it’s relevant to the conversation and not defamatory, I will post it, as I have all your others that meet that criteria.
I’m not sure how many times I’ll have to say the same thing . . .
Chris,
I appreciate the interaction on these matters.
There has been nothing lost to Scripture due to the “murderous siege of early Catholicism.” In fact, I do not know what you are talking about. Early Catholicism, if we take Catholicism to be the church hierarchical organization centered in Rome with control over other bishoprics, with due respect to my Catholic friends, was not even in existence before 350 A.D. And the Catholic plunge into heresy trials and killing opponents did not occur until many centuries later. I challenge you to find any historical evidence that the Catholic Church engaged in any killings prior to 350 A.D. Though I am not a Catholic, I think it is important to be historically accurate as much as is possible.
The church before 350 A.D. was composed of independent bishoprics across the Mediterranean area, Asia, Africa, and Europe. Though there were some differences and much discussion in the early church about many things, there was remarkable consistency of all churches in accepting the four gospels and the epistles of Paul as being Scripture, and rejecting all of the other purported late gospels. Even Tatian, the Syrian gnostic, did not include any gnostic gospel in his Diatessaron (harmony of the gospels). The purported “early Catholicism” did not control the North African Church, the Coptics in Egypt, the Ethiopian Church, the Armenian Church, the Georgian Church, the Persian Church, the ancient Marionite Church, or any number of other independent churches. And I am sure that my Orthodox friends would take great exception to any allegation that they were controlled by the Catholic Church. Yet, each of these ancient Christian traditions, though they may vary on certain doctrinal points, accepted the same New Testament Scriptures as the later Catholic Church, with only very minor variations within the Coptic, Syrian, Armenian, and Ethiopian Church. None of them found the gnostic writings to have the authenticity of the faith handed down by the apostles.
If you have read the Church Fathers condemnation of the gnostics, then this means you have read Ireneus. I am floored that you can read Ireneus and continue to believe that there is some validity to the gnostic viewpoint. The gnostics were detached from reality more than the most drug induced hallucination. And the early gnostic gospels were simply lists of purported sayings of Christ. Lists of purported sayings of Christ were never included in the sacred Scriptures, whether they were those by the gnostics or those by the “mainstream” Christians.
And to say that there is an undeniable Persian influence on Christianity does not prove the asserted point. As I have stated earlier, each of the ideas of Christianity that you have said support a Persian influence are found in even more ancient Hebrew writings. It is far more likely that Jesus and the apostles derived these ideas from their own ancient Scriptures, rather than from Persia.
Calamus was nard
“There has been nothing lost to Scripture due to the “murderous siege of early Catholicism.” In fact, I do not know what you are talking about. Early Catholicism, if we take Catholicism to be the church hierarchical organization centered in Rome with control over other bishoprics, with due respect to my Catholic friends, was not even in existence before 350 A.D. ”
Yes, documents written prior to 350 AD, such as Gnostic Christian texts, were destroyed after 350 AD by the Catholic Church
try to stay accurate.
“I challenge you to find any historical evidence that the Catholic Church engaged in any killings prior to 350 A.D. Though I am not a Catholic, I think it is important to be historically accurate as much as is possible”
The Assault upon Paganism
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/theodosius.html
A triumphant Christian Church, far from unifying the Roman world with a single faith, rent division and civil conflict throughout the empire. Every measure designed to crush and stamp out non-Christian belief met with renewed resistance, disaffection from the imperial cause and civil commotion. Yet the fanatical intolerance rampaged on, with increasingly more severe rescripts from the imperial court. The campaign to wipe out heterodox opinion realized its zenith with the reign of Theodosius I late in the 4th century.
Theodosius – Murdering Fanatic Arrives from Spain
“The statesmanlike decision of Gratian to elevate to the purple the competent son of a convicted traitor was of great significance in Roman history. Ultimately the dynasty of Theodosius presided over the dismemberment of the Roman Empire in the West.”
(Ferrill, p68)
Theodosius, one of those luminaries of the Church accorded the honorific “Great”, showed that a Christian Emperor could best any pagan emperor for folly, indulgence and cruelty. While a Caligula or a Nero could unleash murder and mayhem on his family and entourage, Theodosius criminalized and punished a large part of the population of the whole empire, of which his treatment of Thessalonica is one notable example.
In 390 the Romano/Greek population of the city was involved in a riot over the intimidating presence of the local Gothic garrison. In the tumult, Botheric, the garrison commander, died. Enraged, Theodosius ordered his Gothic mercenaries to massacre spectators who happened to be trapped in the circus. Records Theodoret (393-466 AD) in his Ecclesiastical History:
“Thessalonica is a large and populous city, in the province of Macedonia. In consequence of sedition there, the anger of the Emperor rose to the highest pitch, and he gratified his vindictive desire for vengeance by unsheathing the sword most unjustly and tyrannically against all, slaying the innocent and guilty alike. It is said seven thousand perished without any forms of law, and without even having judicial sentence passed upon them; but that, like ears of wheat in the time of harvest, they were alike cut down.”
More
In the spring of 415 C.E., the situation reached a tragic conclusion when a band of Christian monks seized Hypatia on the street, beat her, and dragged her body to a church where they mutilated her flesh with sharp tiles and burned her remains.
You don’t know much about history Tim.
“The gnostics were detached from reality more than the most drug induced hallucination. ”
And this comeing from a guy who beleives humanity started in Eden, LMAO
Here is a Gnostic creation myth
The fragmented writings of the Gnostic teacher, Basilides, who taught around 120-130 A.D., found in the early Church father Hippolytus’ refutations of Gnostic teachings , give us a taste of the radical Gnosis which was already popular by this early time . Referring to the pre existent state before the Universal Seed took form and gave birth, and sounding like a physicist trying to describe the pre-omega state before the Big Bang, Basilides explained the Gnostic creation cosmology;
There was when naught was; nay, even that “naught” was not ought of things that are…. But… conjecture and mental quibbling apart, there was absolutely not even the One… And when I use the term “was”, I do not mean to say that it was [that is to say, in any state of being]; but merely to give some suggestion of what I wish to indicate, I use the expression “there was absolutely naught”. For that “naught” is not simply so-called the ineffable; it is beyond that .
Hippolytus,(Died 235 A.D.), summarized Basilides’ explanation of non-being, which transcends all being, and its eventual will to create the Seed of Universality, or Mother Source, of the created Universe.
Naught was, neither matter, nor substance, nor voidness of substance, nor simplicity, nor impossibility-of-composition, nor inconceptibilty, nor imperceptibility, neither man, nor angel, nor god… neither anything at all for which man has ever found a name, nor any operation which falls within the range either of his perception or conception. Such, or rather far more removed from the power of man’s comprehension, was the state of non-being, when [if we can speak of “when” in a state of beyond time and space] the Deity beyond being without thinking, or feeling, or determining, or choosing, or being compelled, or desiring, willed to create universality.
Returning to the words of the Gnostic master Basilides, Hippolytus recorded:
When I use the term “will”, I do so merely to suggest the idea of an operation transcending all volition, thought or sensible action. And this universality also was not [our] dimensional and differentiable universe, which subsequently came into existence and was separated [from other universes], but the Seed of all universes.
This universal Seed contained everything in itself, potentially, in some such fashion as the grain of mustard seed contains the whole simultaneously in the minutest point–roots, stem, branches, leaves, and the innumerable germs that come from the seed of the plant, and which in their turn produces still other and other plants in manifold series.
Thus the Divinity beyond being created universality beyond being from elements beyond being, positing and causing to subsist a single something… containing in itself the entire all-seed-potency
cont….
Thus the Divinity beyond being created universality beyond being from elements beyond being, positing and causing to subsist a single something… containing in itself the entire all-seed-potency of the Universe.(Basilides 120-130 A.D.)
Writing in 1900, G.R.S. Mead, from whose work we got the above excerpts, summarized:
“From such a ‘Seed’, which is everywhere and nowhere, and which treasures in its bosom everything that was or is or is to be, all things must come into manifestation in their ‘proper natures and cycles’ and times, at the will of the Deity beyond all”(Mead 1900). Basilides is unclear as to what brings this about, and refers to an indefinable “supplementary development”;
For of what sort of emanation is there need, or of what sort of matter must we make supposition, in order that God should make the universe, like as a spider weaves its web [from itself], or mortal man takes brass or timber or other matter out of which to make something? But ‘He spake and it was’, and this is what is the meaning of the saying of Moses, ‘Let there be light, and there was light’. Whence then, was the light? from naught. For it is not written whence, but only from the voice of the Speaker of the word. And he who spake the word, was not, and that which was, was not. For the Seed of the universe, the word that was spoken, “Let there be light”, was from the state beyond being. And this was what was spoken in the Gospel, “it was the true light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world”. Man both deriveth his principles from that Seed and is also enlightened by it.(Basilides 120-130 A.D.)
Chris,
Nothing you have cited or written support the claim that the Catholic church was murderous prior to 350 A.D., as you stated earlier. And the the fact that an Emperor who claimed to be Christian was murderous is no reason to assert that the Catholic Church was murderous. It would be like saying that the Southern Baptists are responsible for whatever Jimmy Carter did; or that Al Gore did; or that the Catholics are responsible for anything that John F. Kennedy did. The church is responsible for what the church does and sanctions. It is not responsible for those who do not follow the church’s teachings.
And you are right that Hypatia was cruelly killed by a mob who claimed to be Christian. However, this happened in Alexandria, Egypt, not Rome. There is nothing to link her killing to the Roman Church. And such killing was not sanctioned by the church, though I know that some have sought to link the killing to Cyril, the bishop of the Alexandrian Church at that time.
I do not defend everything that is done in the name of Jesus. I do not believe that just because someone claims His name that they are therefore a good person. It is the life that is lived, not the claims that one makes, the demonstrates whether one is a follower of Jesus Christ.
As far as gnosticism, I realize that it comes in many forms. But if you have read Ireneus, you will understand my reference to a drug induced hallucination. It can get pretty far out.
Jesus is not like the Jesus the Gnostics present. You can read Paul, who wrote within 20 years of the death of Christ. You can read the synoptic gospels which were written 30-40 years of the death of Christ. These were all written before the Gnostic writings by those who had reason to know what Jesus was like. Matthew was one of the apostles. You are free to accept or reject their writings. For me, they tell a fairly compelling account of who Jesus was, what He was like, and what He did.
According to their gospels, Jesus taught us to love another, to love our enemies, to be kind, to practice patience, to endure affliction, to love God, to trust Him, and to have hope. He taught us to pray and serve others. He taught us how to live in a way that brings meaning to life, joy, and peace. To me, their description is compelling.
Why are the references which note calamus as Biblical nard not being posted?
You note the birth of Catholocism around 350AD and then state “Catholic plunge into heresy trials and killing opponents did not occur until many centuries later.”
Those murderous references above happened about 50 years after that, and in reality from the time of Constantine’s conversion on…. You know how murderous Constantine was right? Constantine had his eldest son Crispus put to death by poison, and had his wife, the Empress Fausta; killed at the behest of his mother, Helena. Fausta was left to die in an over-heated bath. Their names were wiped from the face of many inscriptions and references to their lives in the literary record were erased.
So where are the records of the church’s opposition to such murdering in the name of the Prince of Peace? The church just went on and on for centuries slaughtering all sorts of “heretics”. You are in denial.
Catholocism came to power via the Roman Emperor Constantine’s conversion after seeing the cross emblazened with the banner “In this sign though shall conquer”. The Bible you know is Ceasar’s Bible. Ever heard of the Council of Nicea that Constantine organized? Yes? No?
You have put your faith in Ceasar’s Bible, and you run your open comments section like one of the Catholic Church censors.
You know that right, the New Testament is Ceasar’s Bible? You do now. Christianity was sold to Rome by its loyal citizen Paul, citizenship has its price!
“As far as gnosticism, I realize that it comes in many forms. But if you have read Ireneus, you will understand my reference to a drug induced hallucination. It can get pretty far out. ”
Yah right, and this from a guy who doesn’t believe in evolution? believe’s virgins can have babies and in imaginary beings like angels and devils.
I have read all the Gnostic texts and all the catholic father’s condmenantions of them…. The Gnostics had a much deeper understanding of things than the silly child’s story of the Bible.
Here is what the Gnostics said about Christianity
” They will cleave to the name of a dead man, thinking that they will become pure. But they will become greatly defiled and they will fall into the name of error and into the hand of an evil, cunning man and a manifold dogma……there shall be others of those who are outside our number who name themselves bishop and also deacons, as if they have received their authority from God. They bend themselves under the judgment of the leaders. These people are dry canals.”
— ‘The Apocalypse of Peter’
Indeed!
There is more healing power for body and soul in a single cannabis plant, than in all the Christian churches in the world. The Tree of Life appears at the end of the Bible and its appearance now marks the begining of the end of the Biblical age.
Hi Mr. Bennett,
I hope things are well with you.
I’m going to say this one more time . . . if you continue to try to circumvent the 3,000 character limit by posting multiple comments and if you continue to post pre-written content instead of simply referencing the article you got the content from – I will delete your comments.
In regards to your calamus theory, you need to answer some questions
1) What are the modern hebrew terms for ‘calamus’ and ‘cannabis’? I know, I am asking you….
2) Why did Jeremiah say God rejected keneh? 6:20
3) Where is the ancient world evidence and references that high quality calamus was traded from India into Israel, in favour of the domestic product? As in Jeremiah 6:20, Ezekiel 27.19,
4) Where are the ancient world references to calamus being used in sacred incenses and anointing oils?
5) Identify language researchers who are aware of the cannabis claims regarding calamus, but who argue in favor of calamus, and show how they explain this connection.
6) Identify references to seeds or grains of calmus being used for food, and coming from multi-heads of calamus (Genesis 41:22)
7) Identify cloth being woven from the fibres of calamus in the ancient world.
8)Find a scholar who says the well known ancient world perfume expert Nigel Groom is wrong in regards to his theories regarding the Greek calamus plant being the Biblical Nard, or evidence that shows Groom is a spurious researcher.
posting multiple commetns? so what are you saying one post per customer.
You can’t quote source material here? The material posted is often not available online.
You have clearly control issues, and you are clearly frustrated how this debate has got out of your control.
Do you really want the truth? Or do you just want to feel safe in your faith?
Most “debates” work in the following fashion: one person says something and the other person responds directly to that. We try to respond to one point, then you post literally pages and pages of stuff (that CAN be found online . . . I googled portions of your “comments” and every time I’ve done so I’ve found the articles you’re quoting). Some of the stuff you post relates to our comments and some doesn’t. I put a 3,000 character limit on the comments so that you (in particular) would perhaps attempt to address one point at a time instead of just rambling on and on and on. I’d like it to at least LOOK like a debate, so people can follow it, instead of reading through your reams of information that can be found elsewhere online. If you think that’s a control issue, so be it. You are taking advantage of our webspace to further your agenda. That’s not what the space is for. Try simply responding to our posts (like you did above – very nice) instead of posting reams of pre-published information.
Anyone can copy and paste large amounts of information as a “debate” but that is not a rational debate. It’s like you’re thinking, “If I post tons and tons of information, it’ll look like I’m winning the debate.” At least that’s the feeling I get. Try to address specific points. If one reads through all these comments, it’s literally impossible to follow any stream of thought. It’s too random and there’s simply too much unorganized information. It’s not a rational, organized debate. If I want to make an argument, I make the argument, and I may augment the argument with additional information. I’ve asked you multiple times to simply cite the source instead of posting the entire batch of information.
Of course you’re not limited to one post, but you’re purposely ignoring what I’m asking, which is this: don’t post pre-published information unless you’re just giving a short quote. Just reference the article. Try to stay on topic. This conversation (if you can call it that) is all over the board.
Btw I hope things are well with you too 🙂
Wierd, Tim or Mr. E keep deleting references that indicate that calamus was the Biblical nard, not keneh.
The new perfume handbook? – Nigel Groom – Science – 1997 – 435 pages
“…the Calamus of the ancients… was a different plant to that known as calamus today. It grew, according to classical authors, in Arabia, and Syria as well as Egypt, and was probably the plant known as Lemon grass.”
http://books.google.ca/books?id=UYrDPqLVD-kC&pg=PA189&dq=plants+mideast+calamus&as_brr=3&cd=10#v=snippet&q=calamus&f=false
In reference to Lemon Grass (Cymbogon citratus) “It is believed to be the Calamus* of the Greeks and Romans and was the Nard or Spikenard of the Old Testament (Song of Solomon), known as Nerd in Hebrew and Nardos Pistike to the ancient Greeks”
http://books.google.ca/books?id=UYrDPqLVD-kC&pg=PA189&dq=plants+mideast+calamus&as_brr=3&cd=10#v=snippet&q=calamus%20nard&f=false
See also spikenard
http://books.google.ca/books?id=UYrDPqLVD-kC&pg=PA189&dq=plants+mideast+calamus&as_brr=3&cd=10#v=onepage&q=spikenard&f=false
According to perfume expert Groom, the New Testament Spikenard was different than the Old Testament Hebrew plant name,
“Nardostachys jatamansi.. was the precious or pure nard of the New Testament, used by Mary to anoint Jesus, but the Nard or Spikenard of the Old Testament applied to a different plant, Camel Grass (see under Lemon Grass oil)”
http://books.google.ca/books?id=UYrDPqLVD-kC&pg=PA189&dq=plants+mideast+calamus&as_brr=3&cd=10#v=onepage&q=spikenard&f=false
Groom is an expert
http://books.google.ca/books?q=+inauthor:%22Nigel+Groom%22
As you are claming keneh is cannabis, but Nigel Groom, a noted expert with over a dozen books published in different languages, says calamus was the Biblical nard, how are my posts discussing this not relevant to the discussion? Why do you keep deleting them?
What are you afraid of? The Truth?
Mr. E, I have no idea what you are refering to, since you mentioned that before, I have posted much shorter comments. If you are finding things online in things I wrote, it does not mean wrote them , if they are a quote form the Nag Hamadi library or somewhere else.
The references to calamus being nard, for instance, are all from another author and an expert.
As well, my 7 point questions regarding the identification you have put forth as calamus as keneh, is very short, but still being held back.
Why is that?
So, now to bring the discussion back on topic. Do you acknowledge that the murderous Emperor Constantine orderd the Councul of Nicea which put the New Testament together?
Is the NT then not “Ceasar’s” Bible? and put together on order by a self promoting murderer?
It would be great if you could also respond to my shor 7 point questions regarding the identification of calamus as keneh as well, which is still “awaiting moderation”
As well, the intitial persecutions were The Church of ome’s persecution of other Christian sects, and this started as early as the Roma Church seized power.
See Pagans & Christians: the personal spiritual experience By Gus DiZerega
http://books.google.ca/books?id=z17cRsEqs-UC&pg=PA193&dq=catholic+murdered+pagans&lr=&as_brr=3&cd=3#v=onepage&q=tragic%20dilemma&f=false
Further Cyril was a “Bishop” of Alexandria, and that does not mean he was not part of the Roman church, rather a Bishop in another area.
Ceasar’s Bible was written in blood.
Chris you are grasping at straws. Israel has to get the u.s.a. To legalize cannabis now so that they can get anointing oil to the sons of Moses and David. Holy oil gets both Christians and Jewish people closer to being Jesus and to Yahweh. Only Satan would keep the people from embracing gods peaceful tree of life. Honestly chris you sound like an agent of Satan with all of your confusing double talk and gobbeldygook
Chris,
Thank you so much for your tenacity and persistence in your quest for truth. You are truly a soldier of the light.
Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.
If your leaders say to you, Look, the kingdom is in the sky, then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, ‘It is in the sea,’ then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is within you and it is outside you.
When will the kingdom come?
It will not come by watching for it. It will not be said, ‘Look, here!’ or ‘Look, there!’ Rather, the Father’s kingdom is spread out upon the earth, and people don’t see it.
Gabe,
What the Hell do you mean by “confusing double talk and gobbeldygook”? and how am I “grasping at straws”? those are just unfounded sensationalized statments with nothing to back them up.
Chris,
As an individual who is interested in this subject, I was really trying to read your information, but then you just reminded me of a long winded old man who wont let the other person respond. I know this is post-style and not conversation, but still. Let the man respond to your thought-provoking comments. Your’s or someone elses. That would be awfully amateur if you are the guy who cuts and pastes every bit of their argument from others. I hope that isnt true, my friend.
If the article/blog is about whether the Bible talks about Marijuana why not stay on the subject people? Other eastern religions are irrelevant.
Help me out here, fellas: It appears that the core part of the argument is on etymology and whether or not certain words are found in the Bible, correct? Chris seemed to make a good point about kaneh bosom possibly being a non-Hebrew word. (did i read that right?) Are scholars mixed regarding this?
Also, even if the ancient Hebrews used cannabis, where does it speak of them smoking it?
I mean, anyone who has an ounce of knowledge would have to agree to the many uses of hemp/cannabis, but isnt it a stretch to say that just because they used it for food meant they were getting ripped behind the tent?
I appreciate some good interaction…
Thanks
Oh, one more thing… I heard this argument once. Please give feedback.
If cannabis use was prevalent (i.e. smoking it) back then, why doesnt the New Testament writers even mention such an issue, when they mention many other types of issues going on?
From my browsing through the New Testament I havent found anything about smoking anything… why?
Thanks
Its because they hadnt invented lighters yet…srry after all my super serious posts. I couldnt resist. Also for anyone interested the word for self control in Galtians 5:23 is actually better translated TEMPERANCE. Makes more sense that way eh? Temperance with pleasure not prohibition. Bless yall.
Chris,
There is simply no truth in the statement that Constantine ordered the Council of Nicea to put the New Testament together. I do not know where you are getting your information. You can read the documents from the Council at http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3801.htm. They do not address the canon of Scripture.
Moreover, long before Constantine, the church had accepted as important for the church the books that are in our present New Testament.
Clement of Rome (95 A.D.) quotes 10 of the 27 books of the New Testament.
Ignatius (107 A.D.) quotes 15 of the 27 books; that is, all books but Mark, Galatians, 2 Thessalonians, Titus, Philemon, Hebrews, 1 & 2 Peter, 2 and 3 John, Jude, and Revelation.
Polycarp (107 A.D.) quotes from 16 of the New Testament books.
The Shepherd of Hermes (160 A.D.) quotes from every book but 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon, 3 John, and Jude).
Ireneus (175 A.D.) quotes from every book except Philemon and 3 John.
The Muratorian Fragment (180 A.D.) lists as the received books the four gospels (although the first two are implied as the fragment begins with “The third book of the gospel is that according to Luke.”), Acts, Romans, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Thessalonians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon, 1 & 2 John, Jude, and Revelation. It lists other books but does not hold them to the same level as those received from the apostles. It includes the “Wisdom of Solomon” as the only book outside of the New Testament books that is a received book.
Clement of Alexandria (200 A.D.) quotes from every book but Philemon, 2 and 3 John.
Tertullian (200 A.D.) quotes from every book but 2 Peter, 2 & 3 John.
Origen (230 A.D.) quotes from every book except Philemon, 2 Peter, 2 and 3 John. Origen also listed those books not subject to dispute (4 gospels, Acts, 13 Pauline epistles, 1 Peter, 1 John and Revelation. He lists as disputed Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 & 3 John, and Jude. He says of 2 & 3 John that “not all agree that they are genuine.” He commends Hebrews and says it is not inferior to any of the apostolic books, but does not believe it is apostolic. He says of 2 Peter that there is some doubt (Ecclesiastical History, Book 6, chapter 25). He quotes James 4:17 as authority (Origen de Principiis, Book 1, Chapter 3, Section 4). He is not clear as to his view of Jude. He also seems to include the Didache and Epistle of Barnabas as Scripture.
Thus, long before Nicea (325 A.D.) and Constantine, there is remarkable consistency in what books were deemed to be canonical. They reflect a consistent remarkable story of Jesus, the Son of God, the Savior of the world.
Shalom.
When Yahushua and the apostles referred to “Scriptures”, we must keep in heart they only had the “old”(??) testament writings. Most of the “new” testament are really letters, and yes, mostly inspired ones. But the foundation of christian faith (aka churchianity) vis a vis kicking against the set-apart Torah and Yah’s law through Moshe, is the letter to the Galatians. Shaul, by the Ruwach, had warned believers to beware of letters that might purport to be from him or the other apostles, and I believe the letter to the Galatians is one such forgery. Study well the historical account of Shaul’s post-conversion travels and visits to Yerushalayim, and contacts (or lack of ) with the other brethren in the first two chapters (Gal 1:14 to 2:15), and compare with the record in Acts of Apostles, and one will see that both cannot be true. Any “new” testament writing (save for the Gospel accounts and Revelation) must be in perfect harmony with the Scriptures (“old” testament) to be acceptable by a discerning believer. As Yahushua says in John 5:46,”For if you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, since he wrote about me”. (pls study well from verse 39). Shaul echoes same in 2 Cor 3:15,16. Shalom
the so-called early church fathers, save for a few who resisted much the changes that were being brought into the fold once romans became the majority, were agents of satan.
Romans 14:1-4,6 — Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. Who are you to judge another’s servant?…He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.
It looks to me like St. Paul isn’t here exhorting anybody to eat (or stop eating) anything. Rather, the exhortation here is to stop judging your brother based on what he eats or doesn’t eat. Given the “Jew vs. Gentile” context of Romans, I assume the original intent was to say something like, “If your Israelite brother still feels compelled to keep kosher, don’t look down on him because of it — nor should he look down on you because you don’t keep kosher.”
Does this sound right? I mean, maybe it is a spiritual principle that a person who is weak in faith should eat only herbs to prove that God will preserve him even on such a meager diet — this is what Daniel and his fellow captives did to their success — but to derive this principle from Romans 14:2 doesn’t seem at all justified, especially since the overall message of Rom 14 concerning food is, “You can eat (or not eat) whatever you like so long as you (1) don’t hurt your brother by what you choose to eat (or not eat) and (2) don’t look down upon your brother for whatever it is he chooses to eat (or not eat).”
good , blessing
Romans 13 what a joke. Well get ready to take the mark of the beast because that also comes from secular authority. Paul is not an apostle and Peter is not Yahoshua. Paul said so many things that are not right it stuns me. But I don’t expect for not elite of YHWH to understand that. I quit smoking pot because of my job, and it makes me sick that Christians take pharma drugs and look down on pot smokers. Pharma means witchcraft. But I guess if secular law says it is ok then Paul wont judge us on judgment day and let us into heaven.
I think we are all missing the point God created all seed bearing plants and saw that they were good gifting them to all mankind to use including marijuana .
all you people who say “oh pot ruins lives and destroys brain cells and can kill you” you are wrong. evidence: 1000 people a year die from Advil, 10 people die from marijuana. these deaths are from allergic reaction or the weed was laced with something. you can die from allergic reactions to peanut butter, but is peanut butter illegal? next evidence, i started smoking pot middle of 1st semester sophomore year. my grades since i started are all high A’s. my lowest grade last quarter was a 97… in spanish. i find i am able to deal with things easier and it is NOT addicting. i smoked everyday multiple times a day for about 3 straight months. I then didnt smoke one day and i had 0 withdrawl effects. in the bible, in revelations, a reference is made, “a plant that is a healing of all nations.” i believe this plant could be cannabis for it has made a great positive effect on my life.
HOW BIG IS YOUR GOD? mine dose not lie only man dose God made all of the seeds of all of the earth.. It is the only thing I can use for pain and gain it will not kill me like all the man made drugs.. my God is not a BIBLE he is everywhere called the HOLY GHOST. I SMOKE POT I EAT IT AND IM SO GREATFUL THAT GOD LOVES ME THIS MUCH AND HE SAY”S I CAN> I WILL NEVER EVER TRUST CHRISTAINITY AS LONG AS I LIVE> GOD SENT JESUS TO FOLLOW HIM NOT THE SPEECH OF MAN> MY HOUSE IS A HOUSE OF PRAYER> AND YES the truth shall set you free> AND IN ca, IT’S ABOUT TO TO HAPPEN. GET EDUCATED BEFORE YOU TRY TO BE MY GOD.. Chris your one of my bro’s thanks for your insight… and Thank you God for POT or cannibus or Hemp or whatever you want to name its a plant and is for are meat. I DIDN’T SAY IT GOD DID. THERES ONLY ONE THING GOD CAN’T DO AND THAT IS LIE.
God Bless sister in CHRIST JESUS who I tarry with everyday for the rest of my Life
COME OUT OF HER>>>MEANING CHURCH AND ALL THE LIES THEY TELL IN THE NAME OF MY SWEET JESUS…. Sharonpraysw4you…all
http://sharonprays4you.blogspot.com/
Alright Tim,
Good Argument I have to admit but I think there are a few things you should consider.
One, in reference to Genesis 1:29….you listed in your argument a bunch of plants that have poison in them, however none of these plants are herbs. Name me a poisonous herb.
Number 2, Yes it is true that God cursed the ground after the fall, but God made it a point to repeat that the herbs are not cursed, even after the fall. (Genesis 9:3)
I do not believe that the holy oil was made from cannabis(or at least there certainly isn’t enough evidence to support it) however I do not think that this argument matters one way of the other as to whether its morally wrong to use marijuana.
The fact is that the herbs are to be treated as meats, and just like any other meat, it can be used wrongly (such as gluttony, or to use it in a way to cause offense to another person..kinda like asking a Jew if he wants to eat a porkchop) but consumption is not wrong, and neither is it wrong to find pleasure in the things that God created. In fact there are certain things that God created specifically for our pleasure.
Psa 104:14 He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth;
Psa 104:15 And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man’s heart.
Again, if the herbs are to be treated as meats then it seems that the same sins that apply to meats, also apply to herbs (gluttony, or using it to cause offense to another person)
In reference to 1st Timothy chapter 2. Question, do you believe we are in the last days? Isn’t there many people (such as the government) that command you to not smoke pot? Do you know of any people forbidding you to eat chicken? What about shrimp? About the only thing I can come up with is Catholics on Lent.
In reference to obey the laws
Yes a person should obey the laws, but I also think you should consider these verses.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
Col 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Question…can you touch marijuana? Can you taste it? Will it perish after usage? So exactly why am I subject to these ordinances?
Col 2:23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
In other words….it might seem holy not to consume certain things, but it doesn’t change your heart.
Thank you…well done here.
Col 2:23 Obeying these rules may seem to be the smart thing to do. They appear to make you love God more and to be very humble and to have control over your body. But they don’t really have any power over our desires.
Many people argue that since your body is a temple(1st Corinthians 6:19) that you should not smoke.
For starters, (and I honestly cant remember if you brought up this particular verse in your argument, however I do remember you bringing up that your body is a temple as referenced in other verses)
But I”m sure you understand that this is talking about fornication specifically. As the verse right before it(verse 18) states
“For all other sins our outside the body, but fornication goes against your own body”
So fornication against your body is what destroys your temple.
So the question remains, does consumption of marijuana fornicate your body?
In the very same chapter you will find this statement.
1Co 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
1Co 6:13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
When something controls you, when it becomes more important than your relationship with God, then it does cause you to fornicate. It all boils down to gluttony.
I know that there are many people that love Jesus and think marijuana is evil and a product of the devil. I disagree entirely, I believe that marijuana only speaks of God’s wonderful creativity, however I do not think that people should despise other’s for their beliefs. Take my uncle for example(he’s a pastor of a church I used to attend) One day he came by my house and saw an ashtray on my table and every time he picked me up to give me a ride, I got to hear the wonderful lecture about how I’m a grave sinner because I choose to find pleasure in what God made, and had no desire to listen to me at all. I had to hear the same thing over and over again, until it made me stop going to that church. I did not stop going because they believed differently than me about pot, I stopped going because of their lack of love for me. I accepted them, but they did not accept me.
I believe the Bible makes it clear how a person should act towards another Christian.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
IF you have peace, joy, and love in the Holy Spirit, you are acceptable
Also, I want to point out (from my first post) that I am perfectly aware that there are some herbs that people are allergic to, such as sage, rosemary or whatever. I even once knew a man that was allergic to marijuana…if thats not a curse I don’t know what is.
But just because some people have allergic reactions to certain plants, I do take this to mean that they are poisonous. I guess what I”m trying to say is this, name me one herb that has a negative allergic reaction to the vast majority of people.
And beyond that, if there are herbs that are poisonous, what does that have to do with whether marijuana is?
Marijuana does not cause ill long term health effects (according to WebMD, and I”m sure you find a bunch of articles that disagree, but I feel that WebMD is a fairly reputable medical source.
http://www.webmd.com/lung-cancer/news/20060523/pot-smoking-not-linked-to-lung-cancer
I’m sure you remember the story about the woman who overdosed on water? It was all over the news. I think she drank like 9 gallons straight and she overdosed on water and died?
Chemically speaking, the active ingredients of marijuana are some of the safest on Earth. You can overdose on water, but you can’t overdose on marijuana. I mean, can you smoke 50 pounds of pot at a time? Could you even do it in a months time?
http://www.druglibrary.org/Schaffer/library/mj_overdose.htm
I agree with your analysis stated in the last part of your article that most people use marijuana for pleasure and not for a deeper understanding of God’s word.
I guess my question is this, do you believe its wrong to find pleasure in what God created, because thats what you are accusing marijuana smokers of doing.
Also, you state that there is essentially two ways of looking at scripture. One is to use it to justify your habits, and the other seek in scripture how we can be changed. It left me with the impression that you think it is wrong to justify your habits by scripture.
It seems to me that a person should justify their habits by scripture, because if they have no justification for what they do, then they know that they should not do it. I know that I do my best to live my life according to the Word of God, and I know that I do this because I am able to justify my actions by God’s Word. It is the redemptive work of Christ and my love for him that gives me the desire to justify my life through God’s Word.
And sorry for leaving three long posts, but I have read through all the posts and I really dont’ think these issues have been addressed properly. I hope to see a reply soon.
Brandon and Tim, now there’s a discussion worth having. I’m not a linguist and I have no real stomach for that kind of stuff. However, I read it because it pertained to this discussion topic.
I’d like to say bravo to Tim for not stooping to Chris’ level with the childish name calling. So, Tim doesn’t believe in evolution, Chris? So what? He’s definitely not alone. In a recent (2006) survey taken for National Geographic, only 14% of american adults thought that evolution was “definitely true,” while about 32% thought it was “definitely untrue” with 54% being unconvinced either way.
Now, to the real heart of my comment. Please bear in mind that I will not be addressing the legal/illegal issue here, that’s a discussion for another time.
I wandered across this page because I was wondering what the Bible had to say about pot use. I’ve been a daily recreational pot smoker for about 17 years now, and I have to say, I’m alright with it. I am also a devout Christian. I will be the first to admit that on the surface those two things seem diametrically opposed.
However, it is my standpoint that the Word gets very specific regarding the way we (Christians) are to lead our lives. We are commanded not to get drunk, not to be gluttons, nor adulterers. These things all make perfect sense to me. If we were not to consume marijuana, wouldn’t the Bible make that clear as well? Its not as though mood altering drugs are new (caffeine anyone?)
The passages in the Bible that refer to being sober of mind and clear headed are talking about over use of wine. The same could be said of pot no? Over-indulgence would be dangerous as it will lead to clouded judgement and would make resisting the temptation to sin more difficult.
If you do not over-indulge in pot use (and are a Christian) then there is only one Biblical argument that I know of which COULD be interpreted as being anti-pot, and that is: 1 Corinthians 6 v 19-20
“Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have recieved from God? You are not your own; you were bought for a price. Therefore honor God with your body.”
Now, here is where Paul is speakling to the believers in Corinth about sexual immorality, but I can see where people make the correlation to pot use. I suppose that smoking pot (or engaging in ANY unhealthy behaviour) could be construed as desecrating the temple, but isn’t that a bit of a stretch?
If you are over-indulging in pot use (and are a Christian) then you have an entirely different issue and it goes back to the ten commandments, Exodus 20 v. 3 states:
“You shall have no other gods before me.” If weed has become your god, then you need to remove it from your life.
There, that’s my two bits. Please let me know what you think about this Tim.
Brandon and Dan,
Thank you for your posts. I have been busy and am way behind in keeping up with this blog. But I appreciate the posts and your comments. And I think in some ways we are in agreement. The article I wrote was in response to those who say that marijuana is found in Scripture. I took issue with that statement. I do not find marijuana in Scripture. The arguments I address in the article are arguments that some raise to say that Scripture supports smoking marijuana. I do not think that their arguments are well supported, for the reasons that I stated.
But saying that Scripture does not support smoking marijuana is not the same as saying that Scripture forbids smoking marijuana, tobacco, or any mind altering substance. My reading of Scripture leads me to believe that Scripture simply never mentions marijuana, good or bad. Accordingly, the questions you both raise about whether it is proper for a Christian to smoke has to be answered from looking more generally at what is it that Jesus calls us to do.
Brandon, you raise the issue about herbs. Today, when we use the term “herbs,” we have a specific portion of the plant kingdom in mind. However, the Hebrew word translated “herbs” in Genesis is a word that has a much more general meaning. It basically encompassed green vegetation that were not trees or shrubs. The term was used to describe grass for cattle as well as other green plants. In any event, even if we were to restrict the term to herbs as we now define the term, not all herbs are good for us. Hemlock is an herb, related to anise, dill, cilantro, and many other herbacious plants. Hemlock is deadly. The argument that God gave us every herb of the field, marijuana is an herb, and therefore it must be good, does not seem to me to be a convincing argument. I can make the same argument substituting hemlock for marijuana, with deadly results.
The question then becomes, what would Jesus want us to do? Jesus calls us to deny ourselves, take up our cross, and following Him. What this means to me may be something different than what it means to you? I do not know. It is certainly true that God does not forbid pleasurable experiences. But our focus should be His focus. He calls each of us to seek first His kingdom and His righteousness (Matthew 6:33). It is not that He wants to deprive us of joy. Rather, He offers to us an internal joy from His Holy Spirit. But He also promises trials. He wants people to be committed to His will and His kingdom. He wants people who are willing to spend and be spent for others, following in the example of Jesus. Marijuana is ultimately not the issue. The issue is not even about whether something is generally lawful in Scripture. The issue is whether we are seeking to further the Father’s kingdom by being sensitive to what the Spirit is saying about the way we should walk. He may lead us each on different paths, but always for the purpose of furthering His kingdom.
According to http://plants.findthedata.org/q/1577/3490/Is-the-Eastern-Hemlock-Tsuga-canadensis-plant-poisonous, this particular hemlock is NOT poisonous. And this is from YOUR fraudulent, satanic “gubment”.
And yes, even though the Conium maculatum http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=coma2 is a poisonous plant, YAH made it for a purpose, and IT IS GOOD! Are you saying that because the plant is toxic it’s not good?
I do agree, however, that the most important thing is serving the Most High, keeping His Commandments, and His Sabbaths and Feasts.
Work out your OWN salvation with fear and trembling. Cause I think a whole heap of us are gonna be shocked and surprised about many prejudices “we” upheld in ignorance; only to find out we didn’t truly know the mind of Christ when he says to us on the Great Day, “Yes, you all had that one messed up too.”
Dan….I believe I had covered this some on my first post but I thought I would expound slightly.(I know I’m not Tim LOL) and I’m really interested in hearing what Tim has to say to my posts…
The Bible certainly teaches that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit. The important thing to understand is verse 18.
Verse 18 and 19 read this…
1Co 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own
You see, it is fornication that causes your body to defile its temple. All other sins are outside the body.
So the question remains….does marijuana consumption cause your body to fornicate(either spiritually or physically)
You should be aware that God did teach that the herbs are to be used as meats(Genesis 1:29 KJV) and just like meats, there are sins associated with it.
In the same chapter that it talks about your body being a temple , you find this passage…
1Co 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
1Co 6:13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
When something controls you, it becomes wrong. It a person can not function in their daily lives, if they would rather sit at home and smoke pot rather than go out and work and provide for their children, then it is wrong. That’s what spiritual fornication is, and that’s what this chapter is talking about.
Again, if the herbs are to be treated as meats…then the things that apply to meats also apply to herbs.
Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
I do want to point out that it is very wrong to use the liberty that Christ has given us to cause offense to another Christian. Just like you can cause offense to those who think certain meats are wrong, you can cause offense to those who think certain herbs are wrong. (Its kind of like asking a Jew if he wants to eat a porkchop)
I welcome everyones comments 🙂
GENESIS 1:29 and 1:30 pretty much says it all to anyone who truly beleives scripture. God gave all seed bearing herbs to man for meat.. meaning for consumption. Cannabis is definately a seed bearing herb. 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
>>I appreciate this article so much. I have a lot of friends who try to justify marijuana by the Bible, and I was searching for evidence to argue with them. It makes me so angry when people do this…hypocrisy is keeping others from knowing the truth.
Angie,
Who created the cannabis plant, and for what reason?
I’m not writing this to condone or condemn the use of psychoactive compounds, but rather to suggest that our thought process has become so skewed, that the truth can be staring us straight in the face, and we simply look right through it without seeing. The vast majority of us simply believe what we’ve been told, without taking the time to confirm anything on our own. We rely on our superiors to give us the truth, when the truth is, that there is only One who actually knows it.
We go to church, read the news, form our opinions, and spread our beliefs, never thinking for a moment that we might not have a very good perspective of reality. We believe something is wrong because someone we respect has told us it’s wrong, and then we pack that knowledge away, pulling it out when necessary.
For example: In church your pastor tells you that some people will go to hell. Well, we know from Sunday School that hell is a place of fire, torture, and pain, and we fear it.
The truth: Hell is a modernized word coming from the Old English word ‘helle’ or ‘helan’, which meant “covered, concealed, unseen”. Helle or helan was used in translating certain words that were contained in the Scriptures, into English, in the early 1600’s when the King James Bible was written (it has undergone more than 12 revisions since, to fix errors). The word helle replaced ‘sheol’ (Hebrew) in the Old Testament, and ‘hades’ (Greek) in the New Testament, among others. Both sheol and hades mean ‘the grave’. You can find that truth using any Bible lexicon (such as Strong’s). In the 1600’s the word helle was used to refer to storing something underground (covered, concealed, unseen). At that time there was no refrigeration, and keeping perishables in the ground kept them fresh longer. In light of that, it was logical to use the word helle/helan to translate the Hebrew and Greek words for ‘grave’.
When your pastor says “Some people are going to hell”, he should be saying “Everyone goes to hell, because hell is ‘the grave'”. The problem is that your pastor doesn’t know that.
So, ask yourself this: Is heroin evil? It certainly can be when used improperly, but it comes from the same poppy plant that morphine is derived from, and morphine can be a very beneficial drug.
And Who created that plant? Does our Creator say it’s an evil plant? He doesn’t really say directly, but much can be discerned from all Scripture. We are to keep our bodies pure, but what does that mean? You decide, with God’s help. We all do.
Let’s take some time today, to find out what the Scriptures actually have to say and it will be a good day.
Jeff
Minneapolis, MN
Scripture is metaphor. It uses literal examples, to explain spiritual truths. If you’re reading the Scriptures, and gaining literal understanding, then you’re missing the truth.
All Scripture, from Genesis to Revelation, is about Christ. Every – single – verse. If you read a passage and you don’t understand what it’s saying about Christ, then you’re missing the truth.
If we focus on issues such as “Is marijuanan in the Bible?”, then we’re wasting valuable time. Our Creator wants us to know Him and that’s what the Scriptures teach us.
What does marijuana have to do with knowing our Creator?
“Is marijuana in the Bible?” has got to be one of the most ridiculous questions to ask.
Brandon,
You hit the nail on the head. Nothing more needs to be said.
Hi all,
It is true that when you simmer kaneh bosm in olive oil all the thc is transferred to the oil…another interesting twist is that it was against the law to be partake of the “oil” if you were not a priest, indicating that it could have negative effects on the person who does not dwell on God. A hammer can be used by God to build a church, a hammer can be used by Satan to crush a skull.
August 19th, 2010.
Boulder, Colo.
I write to wholely support the views about the “cannabis/ganja/kanna bosm”
in the Old and New Testament, as mentioned by my companion Chris Bennett, of
Van Couver. B.C. Canada. For those with “open minds” that happen to own a copy
of Chris Bennett’s vol. on “Sex, Drugs and Violence in the Bible” (2001).
Anyway, my name is in the credits for this volume. I contributed quite a lot of
the material that Mr. Bennett used for his volume. I know (most thoroughly) Sankrit,
Tibetan, Hebrew, Greek and Arabic.
It all comes down to language. “This Bible”…was NOT originally written in English!
Using an English translation….(any translation, in English for that matter…will not cut it, in terms of “really knowing what was said”. One needs to also have knowledge of
the Septuagint Version of the O.T. as well as the Aramaic Version, to get a clearer
picture of “what was originally said.
There are many many many references about Cannabis/ Ganja in “this” Bible.
It is not just in reference to this one single word…”kana bosm” in Exodus 23. I have recently discovered a reference to the “word equivalent” of: “hashish” in the O.T.
which translates into “dry grass” in Hebrew. This was from a Biblical Encyclopedia
from the 1930s. One has to take all this info. all together…, not just on “one word”
to substantiate this particular view of ganja in this Holy Bible.
I have been “researching” this very subject matter since I first saw Mr. Bennett’s
ganja poster in the early 1990s. If there is anyone who is wanting to learn more and
more of this matter…on any everyday basis…it is me! Those willing to dispute my
views can email me here in Colorado. I know that Chis and I are right and am more
than willing to “put money” on this matter to prove my point….all in order to help the
cause of Rev. Roger Christie, of the THC Ministry in Hawai’i. Thank you. Do email me…especially: Mr. Chis Bennett. (4:20pm, MST. Colorado). Tashi Delek to all on:
Guru Rinpoche Day.
Brandon,
I appreciate your posts. I do not see marijuana use as spiritual fornication, but I do think that we should take seriously the warning of the Apostle Paul about addictions. What controls us ultimately enslaves us. Most of us have lived long enough to understand the value of a disciplined life, a life where we control our passions and lusts and they do not control us. When we are young, we wonder why we cannot do anything we want. We find when we are older that if we get all the ice cream and candy that we want, we will gain weight and become physically miserable with back aches, knee problems, etc. By disciplining our eating habits, we live better. Likewise, we wonder why we need to study in school, but failing to study consigns us largely to low paying jobs and financial struggles throughout life. We wonder why we cannot drive as fast as we want, but we find if we do not discipline our driving habits we lose our license and cannot drive at all. There is value to a disciplined life.
Scripture calls us to live disciplined lives for the sake of the kingdom of Christ. We do so by loving God supremely (the first and great command) and loving our neighbors (the second command). Scripture also calls us to be sober, a word not much in vogue today. We can pray for others and serve others best when we have a clear mind and a pure heart.
Scripture calls us to be sober hearted. The distinction we make today between mind and heart was not the greek understanding of the word. soberness is not a fruit of the Spirit: temperance is…vs say abstainance.
After reading this entire article, there is a question that has gone unanswered.
yeshua on 12 Nov 2009 asked about Mary and Juan being the basis for what we call Marijuana.
I can confidently answer that one. Marijuana (the word) was popularized by William Randolph Hearst in an effort to villify the plant. This happened in the 1920s, so there is no possible correlation between Mary and Juan to translate to Marijuana in modern terms. The plant was most definitely not called Marijuana in the biblical times.
VERY IMPORTANT!
Hello, I would like to share my research. I do not currently use marijuana and haven’t in a while. I have never been a wiley sinner, but I have definitely had my moments, women being my big weakness, in the distant past. I have since repented and was wondering if I had to ask the Lord forgiveness for my consumption of cannabis, because I never felt his wrath or any guilt for it, whereas with sex there is some pretty obvious guilt.
Everything regarding the word “kanebeh” is true. Absolutely. It doesn’t mean cannabis. But what you have said regarding the passage in Genesis about “every herb bearing seed” I disagree with.
The Lord says that the meat of all herbs bearing seed are given to man. This simply means that man can use the buds, leaves and stalks of herbs for any reason which they are applicable. Hemlock for example, is definitely not to be eaten, but makes an excellent poison for rodents. Grapes can be used to make wine, and grain beer. Mint and basil are excellent decongestants when inhaled through the nose. I mean EXCELLENT! Basil is better than loratedine or psuedophedrine without a doubt!
The Lord also doesn’t say he has a problem with people intoxicating themselves, but it is DEFINITELY under certain conditions. We are given intoxicants to use in celebration and healing only, with doses respective of those situations. Thats it. That daily glass of wine you are having by reccomendation of that illuminati doctor of yours is ABSOLUTELY a sin. Also a sin is becoming ADDICTED to a substance through repeated and ritual use. All substances are addictive when used in this manner, including bacon, sugar and hot dogs.
Also it seems that burning anything other than as an offering to the Lord as incense, is a sin.
Therefore I have come to the conclusion that daily smoking of cannabis is absolutely a sin, just as daily ritual consumption of any substance except water and bread.
I am VERY strict with myself concerning scripture because I believe that we are indeed in the end times which many prophets forsaw. Also it is important to note that Christ tells us that we must follow the law of the land, as well as God’s law, but only if the law of the land doesn’t break God’s law.
In conclusion, I find that scripture supports the EATING of cannabis as celebration for special occasions, but smoking it is like stealing incense from the altar of God. I am more worried (as should any citizen of a fiat system) about God’s law concerning debt, in that He specifically states that unpayable debt is a sin PUNISHABLE BY SLAVERY! Glory to God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit for giving us His Word!
I would also like to add that cannabis, like alcohol has no other uses besides intoxication and medicine. So my conclusion remains, it is a sin to smoke (inhale) cannabis (or any offering), or use it in any way as a daily ritual. However, eating cannabis during a time of celebration, or as a medicine for the injured or dying (in heavier doses than for celebration) is absolutely okay and is pleasing to God. IT IS NOT TO BE USED FOR INSOMNIA, ANXIETY OR DEPRESSION BECAUSE THE BIBLE STATES THAT THESE ARE NOT A MEDICAL BUT A SPIRITUAL AFFLICTION, DESPITE WHAT OUR DOCTORS TELL US.
All of my conclusions are based on using the index of the Open Bible, in conjunction with scripture as translated in the King James Version.
Brandon and Mike, you guys have two very brilliant yet differing opinions/interpretations. Please read my post as I think it satisfies both! The whole point of the Bible is for us to serve God, and so that we might know Christ through the Holy spirit. The reason for a lot of the mayhem and disagreement in the world today is that it is part of God’s plan that satan, his fallen ones, and his unwitting manservants trick us into sin, indifference, and misinterpretation of God’s wonderful news. It is free and open discussions like these that show proof of the merits of God’s Word, and you two are a shining example of how we should strive to understand the Word; carefully and knowing that the society of man is of sin, and even good things can become sin of man if he does not know God! All praise to Him!
I do not partake of cannabis nor do indulge in the cannabis trade. On the other hand, I cannot recall a single day of disbelief in God and I have long serve Him and the Son. That being so, I think your logic is convoluted and full of holes. It is too obvious that the term qaneh-bosem or kaneh-bosem became the word canabos. Secondly, cannabis grew wild and was cultivated all over the Middle East, including the Holy Land, in ancient times. It would have been a familiar plant to the Hebrews, and later, the Israelites, who almost certainly never even heard of calamus. That is why they had no word for calamus. It did not grow anywhere near the Holy Land. But it did grow in Greece and was part of their mythology. The Greeks, in turn, disdained cannabis as something lesser peoples indulged in, such as the Sythians, the Babylonians, and the Persians. No doubt, the good writers of the Septuagint were honoring Greek culture by eroneously using “calamus” instead of what kaneh-bosem truly was. And we do not even know for certain thatkaneh-bosom was the word originally used…Throughout the world, various peoples have recognized cannabis as a having sacred and mystical attributes. So, it is not a stretch of imagination to conclude it pobably was part of the rituals that the Israelites employed. Remember, their ancestors came from Mesopotamia. Though Abraham rejected Mesopotamian gods and goddesses, he brought much of their mythology and practices with him and his people. The first half of Genesis is evidence of that….
If something beng illegal in any particular place makes it unacceptable to God, then those folks who have Bibles in places where Bibles are forbidden must be incurring God’s wrath. Likewise, those folks who live in cities where giving many to beggars is illegal are doomed for their charity…Nations, states, and cities that have declared cannabis illegal are foolish. It is right that such laws should be ignored….
You should not assume that the use of cannabis is unprofitable spiritually for anyone. You also need to understand that God is not nearly as interested in having narrow-minded, closed-minded worshippers as you seem to think….
Who cares if jesus smoked weed theres nothing wrong with it
May I share an interesting story? I sometimes – very sparingly – partake of cannabis. I also consider myself a Christian because I believe that Jesus Christ is indeed the Son of God, is the Messiah. I usually partake of a bit of cannabis whenever I read the Holy Bible because, I believe, it helps me to understand what I’m reading. The holy Spirit of God also witnesses to me when I read the Word, but I like to partake, too, so…
One day, after “partaking”, I decided to go have a manicure and a pedicure at my local nail shop that is operated by some Asians/Orientals. As I’m sitting in the chair “intoxicated”, getting my feet scrubbed, I began to take a look around and really take notice of all the strange Asian/Oriental artifacts and trinkets and “shrines” if you will that these Asian/Oriental people had placed throughout the whole shop. I mean, there were so many strange looking shrines and altars to – I guess – Buddha, or whatever god it is these people worship and I think to myself: “Do these people worship the Lord God Jehovah?” As I’m looking at all this pagan stuff, something in my spirit moved and said to me that basically I am sitting here, amongst all these people who worship pagan gods, and getting ready to give the money that my Lord blessed me with to these people who don’t worship Him – the Almighty God. I guess I was feeling that the Spirit of God was telling me not to blaspheme Him by giving my blessings from Him to those who don’t worship Him.
I was puzzled by this, so when I got home, I started reading the Word of God and I was directed to the book of Acts, Chapters 19 and 20, and it was pretty much confirmed for me what the Spirit of God was showing me about the Asians/Orientals in the nail shop: they don’t worship God; they worship gold, silver, and some false idol named “Diana” and I was basically committing blasphemy with these Orientals who sacrifice to their false/pagan gods.
I haven’t been to a nail shop since. It’s hard to find a nail shop in the United States thats NOT run by Orientals/Asians… Is that a racist statement or should I stop “partaking”?
“In my view Dr. Benet’s evidence falls far short of proving the conclusion that “q’nah-bosem” was marijuana.”
as far as i can tell, the bible falls short of proving everything many if not all of its claims. Not to say its untrue but it often prove it self by referring to itself.
Also you said marijuana is addictive, that’s been studied I believe, and was a lie,
and long term users include people such as George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and many other respected people,
Its is only illegal because its a plant that does way to much, it was made illegal so other industries could thrive such as alcohol, paper, medical drugs, and allot of other common thing that thrive.
Marijuana is less dangerous than alcohol and the vast majority of perception drugs. And it even cures allot more, including pain! it could even cure cancer in some way, including lung cancer, from smoking it…
the truth is that a large number of respectable adults, kids, and Christians smoke marijuana, and they aren’t too different from any one else.
Your article claims her position is logically flawed but fails to mention what is flawed about it. That is not very helpful when trying to find the truth in this issue.
Good job of educating by Chris Bennett!
I’m curious what Tim makes of these lines in Lamsas translation of the OT in the Peshitta:
Nehemia
3:31 After him repaired Melachiah the son of Zepaniah as far as the house of Nethanites and of the dealers in herb drugs.
3:32 Opposite the gate at the extreme end and as far as the ascent of the corner which turns toward the sheep gate repaired the goldsmiths and the dealers in herb drugs.
http://www.lamsabible.com/LamsaOT/16_nehemiah.htm
I notice my comment on the article “Does Scripture Support the Use of Marijuana?” from a few days ago didn’t get posted. Perhaps you should remove the misleading line “Comments are open for this article”. It’s unfair, unkind, and a waste of people’s time to lead them to do research and writing believing that their comment will be posted. it’s quite ironic that you are withholding comments given the name of your site is truthsaves.org. Apparently you believe you have a monopoly on the Truth. I’m very disappointed in your lack of integrity. You do your Faith a disservice by censoring and not addressing your readers’ comments.
Paul, your previous comment was marked as spam by Aksimet. I do reserve the right to censor comments but I typically don’t. Some of Bennett’s comments (and only some) were censored because he refused to be reasonable and he refused to honor my requests to stop posting pages and pages of articles that he had previously written. In fact, my character limit on comments was imposed because of Bennett. I respect the opinion of others and welcome reasonable discourse.
I apologize for my assumptions Mr. E. I’m happy to see you’ve posted my comments. I’m curious what you make of the passages I quoted from Nehemiah. Keep in mind the Lamsa translation was made directly from the Aramaic language, which Jesus and his disciples spoke, in 1933, before Reefer Madness.
i just have one question, if Marijuana comes from the earth as it obviously does and there are no additives or any chemicals added by men to create the affects as it already naturally has, didn’t God place Marijuana on earth just like any other plant for us to utilize in some way as part of the same other plants, fruits and vegetables we already use?
You don’t have to answer me and please do not be angered by my question I am not implying anything else other than what the question asked, but please listen to it with an open mind, give it time.
I am addicted to marijuana. I have just recently quit, again, and I have been trying to justify my use of it and I can’t. I think it is best to er on the side of caution. If Jesus lets me into Heaven and tells me that I could have smoked all the weed that I wanted to, then it will be no big loss. But what if he tells me it is a sin? What if I keep using it and lose my soul? Please pray that The Lord will give me the strength to remain in him.
Paul, I apologize for not getting back to you. I thought I had sent a response some time ago but it does not seem to have posted. The Peshitta is an ancient Syriac (Aramaic) translation of the Hebrew Old Testament. The Hebrew Scriptures use a word meaning “merchant” or literally “one who goes about,” i.e., a trader. The Septuagint translation that was translated from the Hebrew before the time of Christ and before the Peshitta (but the earliest copies we have are after Christ’s time though earlier than our earliest copies of the Peshitta), uses a word meaning “a dealer in petty wares.” In either the Hebrew or the Greek, there is no hint of herbal drugs. Nevertheless, some scholars have thought that the reference may be to spice merchants; and the Hebrew word seems to be so used in Song of Solomon 3:6. However, the Hebrew word is much broader in meaning as we find its use covering all types of merchants (Ezekiel 27:13-24).
The Peshitta therefore stands alone as reading this reference as one to herbal drugs. Nevertheless, even if the Peshitta reading accurately reveals the meaning of the original Hebrew, such still does not get us to marijuana. Herb drugs were used for medicinal uses throughout the ancient world (Jeremiah 8:22; 30:13; 46:11). But there is simply a dearth of evidence showing that marijuana was ever used in ancient times in the land of Israel. There is no indication in the text that “herb drugs” included marijuana nor is there any evidence outside of the text that would make marijuana a likely part of the herb drug commerce in Jerusalem.
How lame can a so called Christian be? You just refuse to see the truth. You might as well say so and be done with it. Is this the sin of refusing the Holy Spirit? Yeshua Lord of all creation please enlighten this person with the truth about cannabis. Your brother in Christ Yeshua Creator of ALL things…
Yes, the Bible does not support this…
Are you crazy to think that Jesus was a pothead..?
This article is only reasonable and accurate in the first paragraph. I suspect its a ploy to make the reader believe this comes from an unbiased and objective author. Soon enough you find out that its yet another blind partisan fool from the age where people didn’t have infinite information at the tip of their fingers. The internet has only confirmed to many new cannabis users that they have been lied to by their parents, and society. They soon realize that YES this plant can be used spiritually and its NOT such a crazy idea that it would be an ingredient in the holy anointing oil.
Please tell me what other plant on the face of the earth has so many positive uses? just google search under images: hempuses.jpg
The fact that Christian conservatives allow ‘big know it all government’ to outlaw a PLANT that God left us here
“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times, some shall … speak lies in hypocrisy … commanding to abstain from meats which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. (Paul: 1 Timothy 4:1-3)”
“The oil is of high nutritional value because its 3:1 ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 essential fatty acids, which matches the balance required by the human body”
Please Wake up!!! According to 2 Corinthians 4:4, the “god of this world has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ.”
If anything cannabis can cure alcoholism it has for many people that I know, It can help you quit smoking tobacco. Tobacco claims about 450,000 Americans PER YEAR. When was the last time someone got lung cancer from cannabis? Never been linked. Waiting for evidence.
In conclusion its not that Cannabis is good or evil. Its HOW you use cannabis that matters. If its your ‘party drug’ and you use it to ‘get messed up’ then that’s WRONG and stupid I might add. Cannabis is to be respected as a holy divine gift that God left us for our pleasure, much like every other FRUIT out there. To me cannabis reminds me of strawberries, I one day will grow both =D. Enjoy life and stay positive. Don’t think you are evil, dont think you need to justify yourself with scripture. The truth is within you and if it cannabis benefits you its your God given right!
I welcome any replies, or comments. You can find me on Youtube.com/thehempmessiah
-The Hemp Messiah
Also:
The ancient recipe for this anointing oil, recorded in the Old Testament book of Exodus (30: 22-23) included over nine pounds of flowering cannabis tops, Hebrew “kaneh-bosm” B, extracted into a hind (about 6.5 litres) of olive oil, along with a variety of other herbs and spices. The ancient chosen ones were literally drenched in this potent cannabis holy oil.
From the time of Moses until that of the later prophet Samuel, the holy anointing oil was used by the shamanic Levite priesthood to receive the “revelations of the Lord”. At the dawn of the age of Kings, Samuel extended the use of the anointing oil to the Hebraic monarchs by anointing Saul (and later David) as “Messiah-king”. These kings lead their people with the benefit of insights achieved through using the holy anointing oil to become “possessed with the spirit of the Lord.”
Hello everyone,
I do have a comment on this and the paper. Basically I think everyone is missing the point which is to live for Christ and continue on the path of salvation.
Romans 14 explains it well that these doctrinal debates get us no where but what every Christian has in common, whether they are orthodox, catholic, Presbyterian, evangelical, or baptist is that we believe in the death, resurrection, and divinity of Christ who has come down as our savior and a substitute for the destruction of sin and death. In other words our redemption is complete through the willingness of Jesus the Christ to drink from the cup and take in all of the wrath of God the father which was initially directed towards humanity. Every saved Christian can attest to this ultimate love which God has for us.
On the subject of herbs like Cannibis, ‘magic shrooms’, salvia, or anything else that grows from the ground, you may note that none of these substances are actually detrimental to humans. In fact numerous health benefits such as treatment of multiple sclerosis, depression can be found from the consumption of cannabis and its actually being synthesized into medicines to be used in pharmacies.. some brand names are sativex and marinol.
The only thing which causes detriment from the use of cannabis is how it is consumed: via smoking which increases risk for cancer and other undesirable things.
And as to its causing detriment and ruined lives within the community: well this is only caused because of 2 reasons:
1. The bad reputation Cannabis has been given within the professional world (read about why cannabis was deemed illegal in the first place)
2. The fact that it is illegal which means one can loose their job from cannabis use and can go to jail… this causes a black market to rise up which benefits from the illegality by providing the supply for the demand. If it was legal we would not have this problem and surrounding problems caused by it.
Furthermore it can only be seen as being a ‘sin’ if it is overused, just like alcohol, watching tv, eating, or any other activity which a human can be attached or ‘addicted’ to. These things should all be secondary to Christ.
The bible even talks about being ‘drunk’ and the use of wine (we can substitute cannabis intoxication with this)… but it doesnt expressely state this is a sin. For example Jesus’ first miracle was turning the water into wine and in Prov. 31:6-7 David even ‘prescribes’ it to those who are going through hard times: “Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish and wine unto those of heavy hearts. Let him drink and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.”
In the end, using herbs like Cannabis are only sins if you believe them to be (as Romans 14 states). And they’re use should be SECONDARY to your belief in Christ. This is in the same way as any other thing in our life.
one question got stuck to me, one person said, why is there no mention of any person smoked or smoking in the Bible?
a very simple answer: pipe hasn’t been invented yet so they just light it up, thus, burning kaneh-bos as part, if not the only ingredient, of incense burning of the ancients.
to everyone who smoked or is still smoking pot and feels bad about doin it, you’re not doing yourself any good. just stop doin it, and youre not doin the community of Cannabis-believing people any good, too. if you feel addicted to it and controlled by it, then you are not strong enough to receive.
if you think something is bad for you, then stop.
if it uplifts you, if it enlightens you.. then go straight ahead.
i’ve experienced one severe panic attack about 3 years ago and since then, ive been strong enough to recieve Cannabis.. but thats only because i was afraid to lose my life, before…
Jesus didnt smoke but he was “smeared” with the holy anointing oil.. with Cannabis in it..
to those who criticize, you should all toke, even once, accompanied by a spiritual person or the ones who believe it to be a holy sacrament or even just an experienced smoker just so you can be guided through your journey..
SAME POINT AND ITS REALLY STUPID NOT TO SEE.
Cannabis(Marijuana and Hemp) only became illegal because, yes, nothing could parallel its over 25,000 uses including superior clothing, food, medicine..
had it been legalized then lumber companies would fall, aspirin would be overpowered..
its exciting to add that it is the safest among any other intoxicants, not that it is an intoxicant itself but that is just because how it is labeled in this world of hipocrisy and lies.
ive 3 interesting verses to share with you all..
“Listen and understand. What goes into a man’s mouth does not make him unclean, but what comes out if his mouth, that is what makes him unclean”
-Jesus, Mathew 15:11
“The secrets of the Kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the OUTSIDE, everything is said in parables so that
‘they may be ever seeing but NEVER perceing, and ever hearing but NEVER understanding.’ ”
-Jesus. Mark 4:11
10 Make the heart of this people calloused;
make their ears dull
and close their eyes.[a]
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts,
and turn and be healed.”
-Isaiah 6:9
NIV translations.
for all of you.. Cannabis is the fruit of the HOLY SPIRIT.. listen closely at what its attributes are.. ok??
love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control..
-Galatians 5:22
it’s clear that one experiences all of this when HIGH [with the HOLY SPIRIT]. or atleast, I and I feel this..
I and I..
same “hello” from the recent post..
greetings to all Cannabis-brothers..
and unbelievers..
another advice.. this will very well establish your careers as what you say you are, Christians..
have some Cannabis before reading your daily servings of the Bible.. and you’ll know what we’re all talking about. please.. please do it. it’s for yourself..
ps. to be real Christians.. one need to be “anointed”.. I recently made coconut oil made from coconut juice and finely ground Cannabis and i must admit it has psychotropic properties.. my friends liked it and said they would buy some if i release it on the market.. pretty awesome work there THC.
I personally fail to see how a plant that GOD CREATED can be “sinful” in His eyes. Is there any other natural thing that God CREATED that is “sinful” as well? Anything at all?
Sex is not a sin unless used wrongly. Killing animals for eating is not a sin. Killing other people in self-defense is not seen as a sin – nor is killing people in the name of God, apparently. Eating cows, pigs, chickens, or any plant is not considered a sin – except for this ONE. Even the “original sin” was done using apples, which are widely consumed by Christians without remorse.
All thanks to some guy in the 1930s who decided to make marijuana illegal in America so that he could further his political career.
Christians seem hell bent on coming up with as many ways as possible to bow down to Caesar. I don’t even smoke or use marijuana and I can see the b.s. in your anti-pot campaign, sir.
In our article we did not say that smoking pot was a sin. Your argument does not address our article; perhaps you should read it before setting forth an argument that doesn’t address any points within it.
The argument that something is good for you because God created it fails. God created hemlock. I doubt you’d want to smoke or ingest that.
ANSWER 4 ZEALOTS.
GOD MADE BUD.
God made hemlock.
Someone already countered this argument. Good for you means good to use! Hemlock = rat poison. What u are arguing with the Hemlock thing is that if I use bleach to drink and die that bleach is evil. just false.
Let me say it in a different way. I do not think poison is evil. I’m countering the argument I’ve heard countless times that since God made pot, it is, therefore, good for you. That is flawed logic. God made a lot of things, many of which are not good for you.
It is not flawed to say that because God made it, it is good for you. The issue here is the definition of the phrase good for you and others. Scripturally speaking you disagree with Paul who says explicitly that I believe “All things made by God are good.” Good to eat, good to consume? Good to use is what I believe he was getting at whatever the proper use might be. You are making a major leap to say logically that Hemlock is Not Good because it can kill you if used improperly. The best one can say is that it is evil to misuse a good thing that God has made. That the MISUSE of canabis is evil. That’s about it. But I belive it is obvious that you go way beyond logic on this one to say a plant that God made could be evil or not good in and of itself. However somone already dealt with this yet you persist in dogmatic rejection of a good argument. Not surprised just disappointed. God have mercy.
To put it more simply Scripture indicates that everything God made is good. I believe you say many which are not good for you. Can something be both good and not good for you? Maybe not good for you to eat or smoke or ingest. This would be a matter of science and ubderstanding as I believe Adams mission to “subdue” the earth is more accurately translated approach and apply with knowledge. It is scriptural for your opponents to say it is good because God made it. Your pretty much limited BY SRIPTURE to retort: well it may be good but it may not be good to eat (which i happen to disagree with) or smoke (which i agree with). Just trying to scripturally clarify for aeveryones sake.
I believe you are completely wrong in your OPINION. Marijuana comes from a seed, a seed that mankind can not re-create or fashion himself thousands of years ago (and we know that pot has been around for that long). So if we subscribe to the fact that God is the creator of ALL life, including plants, then how can we NOT subscribe to the fact that God created this plant for our consumption.
Secondly, you made this tie-in to crime in Mexico and blah, blah, blah…There is crime because it is currently an illegal substance. And we have learned from Prohibition era, that anytime the government meddles things get screwed up. The U.S. government created the blackmarket on alcohol & marijuana, and looked what happened…exactly my point. Don’t blame marijuana for the violence, its the ability of a certain few who are eager to make money on something that our government created a blackmarket for. If the government made chocolate and cookies illegal, think of the violence that would create AND the money that could made on the blackmarket. Violence doesn’t come from the drug, it comes as a result of the government making it illegal.
Your argument that because pot comes from a little seed that God created therefore it’s acceptable for our consumption is an illogical argument. There are many plants that come from a little seed, that are natural, that God created, that can easily kill you. If you eat the water hemlock plant, you’ll go into violent convulsions, experience muscle tremors, vomiting, nausea . . . and then you’ll die. If you happen to live, you’ll have long-term health complications such as amnesia. Just because it’s a plant does not mean it’s appropriate for consumption. Your argument is common among proponents of marijuana and one that’s already been mentioned in previous comments.
You are right that crime is a result of people breaking the law. But some things should be illegal and marijuana is one of them. Use of the herb would become much more widespread if it were legal, dumbing down future generations, spoiling countless bright minds and creating a culture of laziness and apathy in our country. Sounds pretty lame to me.
I’ve watched the drug destroy lives; I’ve seen it firsthand. It almost destroyed mine. Read my story (my testimony on truthsaves.org) and you’ll see what I mean. This is not something I know nothing about. I know it well. From what I’ve seen, people who support the drug are addicted to it. They deny it . . . but when I defended its use, I was addicted to it. So I always found ways to support it. I used the same arguments you’re using. But they’re weak arguments. Marijuana is dangerous and addictive. Anyone who’s used it regularly and found a way to stop using it knows that what I’m saying is true. Addicts who defend drug use are like salesmen who sing a product’s praises even when the product totally sucks.
First off, Marijuana doesn’t make people stupid do your research before you make these accusations. It’s ignorant people that don’t believe marijuana is the tree of life. Marijuana WILL NOT ruin your life, if anything it will help you in your darkest moments. The only reason marijuana COULD lead to the destruction of an innocent life is if that person seeks a greater high. i.e. crack cocaine, methamphetamines, all these chemicals MADE BY OUR GOVERNMENT. You want to point fingers at anything/anyone point them at our government for all of the corruption that is in our world today.
ADDDICTION DESTROYS LIVES OMG! Sorry to shout but drugs don’t destroy anything. It’s like that NRA argument that is so popular with Christians. Guns dont kill people…I used to use it I stopped cold turkey for love. Some of the most hardcore prohibitionist are those who have been hurt by IDOLATRY. I hear your pain and caution is warranted however the drug didnt hurt or destroy your life. The fact that you made it an idol in your life did. And just because you gave it undue importance in your own life doesnt mean it will do the same to others. Trust me, I walked in other idols like sexual immorality. Just cause that damaged my life doesnt mean i can go around telling people that they shouldnt ever have sex cause it will destroy them. As far as God had shown me there is a time for all things under heaven. I believe sex is for marriage. Right time right place. I DONT USE CANNABIS. I believe in freedom in Christ not restriction in Christ. It should not be illegal imo. Throw a monkey wrench into your orthodoxy? Please if it offends you or stumbles you just say so we can all respect that and behave lovingly toward you but please please please stop judging! I will pray for you. Now you are addicted to “soberness”. Please dont be like David’s wife who saw him dance and hated him. It is not worthy of you.
1.God, through Jerimiah the phrophet, said the scribes and translators are liars! Don’t believe me , read jer8:8. This supports the possibility of a mistranslation.
2. Calamus is a TOXIC HALLUCINOGEN! Six pounds of it? Really? U believe that? Tight’n up bruh.
3. Your only offended because its “illegal”. Period. It is viewed as a “bad” plant. From creation until the early 1900’s it was legal. But now its illegal. Intresting. Hey, now same sex marriage is becomming legal. And the bible is being outlawed all together. In a few generations its very possible that most people will think YOUR WRONG for saying homosexuality is wrong. Aren’t people on tv constantly apologizing for anti gay comments? This is called social engineering.They are trying to indoctrinate the kidz. So You’ve, no, WE’ve been programmed to think a seed bearing plant is BAD. DIDN’T GOD CALL IT GOOD? In genesis? Didn’t hey place ALL the seeds in Adams hands? To become illegal? You believe that?
4. ELOHIM BUILT US WITH CANNABIS RECEPTORS!!!!!!! Cb1 and cb2!!!
5. President carter shut down a study from the univerity of virginia that showed how this plate reverses CANCER!!!! All good things comes from whom? Find the psalm that states “all herbs is for the services of man”
6. Did satan create it? In the begining was the word… ALL THINGS WERE MADE BY HIM AND WITHOUT HIM NOTHING WAS THAT WAS MADE… THE WORD BECAME FLESH. HENCE JESUS CREATED WEED. Which now illegal.
7. Nothing proves that he(jesus) smoked or used weed. (so far at least)
Finnally, bros and sistaz, anointed simply mean EMPOWERED! Thats all. Moses and the phrophets used oil (that couldn’t have contained calamus; a hallucinogen). But john the baptist used WATER TO EMPOWERS THE MESSIAH! AND YAHWEH FOLLOWED IT UP WITHE SPIRIT IN THE FORM OF A DOVE! It was at this point HE was anointed! No mention of oil. So while weed is most certainly in scripture by virture of creation, it not mentioned as being used by MESSIAH. Now, did mary pour oil on him that contained this special ingredient right before his crucifixion? What were those ingredients? And please don’t depend on the greek text. But that is another debate.
Poison? Yes there are poison ous plants. But that does not.change the fact that Elohim called ALL PLANTS GOOD. People, throughout time have figured out was to extract poison from plants to find good use of them. Even the poison can been used to control pests. I mean dang. Its simple. IT WAS CREATED & AND THE CB1 and CB2 RECEPTOR SITES IN THE HUMANS BODY PROVES THAT WE WERE BUILT TO RECIEVE CANNABINOIDS!!!! Dugh… Wake up people. One luv
C’mon the likely hood that hebrews did not use enriched oil made with THC and other substances is a given the same as any spiritual shamanic culture uses some kind of drug.
It’s just plain wishful thinking hebrews didn’t get high to communicate with God.
“Long term use has deleterious effects on the cognitive function.”
It’s hilariously ironic that someone criticizing another person’s cognitive functioning doesn’t know how to use the phrase cognitive function in a sentence. Anything can be abused, that doesn’t make it inherently bad, it makes the negative abusive behavior bad. Also it’s ironic that the nightshade family is considered by the author to be unable to be used beneficially when a constituent of deadly nightshade atropine (a hallucinogenic deleriant) and it’s derivatives were significant in the development of modern medicine, for example the development of antihistamine compounds. According to the founder of modern toxicology Paracelsus, “All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; only the dose permits something not to be poisonous.”
Endogenous cannabinoid receptors don’t exist for the purpose of getting high from cannabis, they were very necessary to animals and were developed very early in evolutionary history. The sheer number of physiological systems they affect is profound, Mechoulam is an excellent source for further information about this.
The attitude of the bible towards cannabis is significant to me not because cannabis users try to justify their use through the bible but that supposed followers of the bible are willing to bend the interpretation of scripture in a way that supposedly condemns cannabis use, when their own messiah instructs them not to judge each other. Insinuating that a useful plant not clearly even mentioned in the scripture goes against scripture and that anyone who uses it will be consigned to eternal suffering as a result is not just silly, it’s the diametrical opposite of christianity as I understand it. What’s clearly immoral is the unjustified imprisonment of large numbers of innocent people and it’s attempted justification by appealing to religious people in a way that goes directly against the teachings of Christ.
It’s also quite naive to think that this plant can only produce intoxication, there are constituents such as CBD which are very useful medically to people such as schizophrenics, which has been demonstrated to be as effective as atypical antipsychotics with large reductions in (extremely dangerous) side effects that often cause people to stop taking medication. This condition affects over 3 million people in the US alone, myself included, and is a serious medical condition commonly totally destroying a persons life. To those christians who stand by the laws of the land as they exist and don’t seek their change I submit to you that you are arguing essentially in favor of the destruction of over 3 million lives in the US alone and many more lives worldwide, a position which amounts to mass murder, when you callously criticize medical cannabis use as sinful according to christianity. Infact, as this example illustrates cannabis is capable of greatly improving some people’s cognition.
Here’s an interesting article: http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/medical_marijuana_review.html
The attitude of the bible towards cannabis is significant to me not because cannabis users try to justify their use through the bible but that supposed followers of the bible are willing to bend the interpretation of scripture in a way that supposedly condemns cannabis use, when their own messiah instructs them not to judge each other.
Please explain where we’ve bent the interpretation of Scripture. And we do not judge those who smoke pot. God is the ultimate judge. We simply believe that Scripture does not condone smoking pot and getting high, which is what most people use marijuana for. Even those who supposedly use it for medical purposes often use it to get high. I have a friend with a medical marijuana card, and it’s his trophy. He’s has no medical reason to be smoking pot. He’s just abused the system to get his card so that he can legally grow marijuana and get high. He abuses it, he sells it for profit and he uses it to get high. Do we judge him? No. Do we believe Scripture supports the use of marijuana in this way? No. As we’ve said in the article, Scripture does not even mention marijuana. That was the whole point of the article—that the use of marijuana is not supported in Scripture.
Insinuating that a useful plant not clearly even mentioned in the scripture goes against scripture and that anyone who uses it will be consigned to eternal suffering as a result is not just silly, it’s the diametrical opposite of christianity as I understand it. What’s clearly immoral is the unjustified imprisonment of large numbers of innocent people and it’s attempted justification by appealing to religious people in a way that goes directly against the teachings of Christ.
From the article: I think the bigger problem is that people are looking more to justify their desires than they are to die to self, take up their cross, and follow after Christ. Paul states in 1 Corinthians 6:12 that all things are lawful but not all things are helpful. I suspect that few can make a cogent argument that the use of marijuana is helpful to preparing our physical lives to be fit vessels useful to the Holy Spirit. In Ephesians 5:18 we are told not to be drunk with wine but to be filled with the spirit. What wine in excess can do, affecting our ability to think, so marijuana can do.
As always, we as followers of Christ want to point people to Him. At some point, we move away from seeking our rights to focusing on what will make us the best vessels possible for His purposes and kingdom. I would encourage those who think that marijuana use is proper to pursue the knowledge of God through the disciplined study of His revealed word (2 Timothy 2:15) and to prepare (1 Timothy 4:7) with sobriety (1 Peter 1:13; 5:8) the lives He has given us to be used for His kingdom purposes. I would encourage those who reject the use of marijuana to do the same. And always, may we have grace one to another.
We do not believe that people who smoke marijuana are necessarily going to be consigned to eternal suffering. We do believe that a living faith in the Jesus of the Bible is essential for salvation. And that is the whole point of the site, to point people to the Jesus of the Bible and to encourage people to seek Him.
And we have never said that medical marijuana use is a sin. Your sweeping generalizations are inaccurate and misleading.
What an excessively biased article, the author obviously knows little about the topic and merely presents as much negative information as possible. Medical cannabis isn’t limited to the properties of THC and the role played by the other major constituents in this paper are ignored, undermining it’s accuracy, the author is obviously cherry picking his data. It also assumed erroneously that only CB1 receptor sites are agonized when much of the proposed medical benefits are related to the CB2 receptor system. The antipsychotic properties of CBD are omitted completely as well as the analgesic properties of CBN both of which lack the hallucinogenic qualities of THC. The role of the endogenous cannabinoid system is also portrayed rather incompletely without a comprehensive overview of the numerous effects it has on various physiological systems. Whenever pure THC is used in a study totally different results will be obtained compared to studies done with a complete terpenoid profile. What can you expect I suppose from a site called “god and science” that proposes that evolution doesn’t exist and that pure a priori concepts such as god can be derived from sensations? You undermine your credibility by posting a link to such a ridiculous site, the information contained there in no way refutes my claims which remain unchallenged.
glad you liked it! 🙂
I certainly don’t see how people justifying their desires for a recreational drug through the bible is a bigger problem than 3 million people being denied legal access to safe medication that could mean the difference between living a normal life and living a life of perpetual suffering and poverty, perhaps you have a weak grasp of ethics or didn’t actually understand what I said. The latter seems like a quite likely possibility when I hear you say this:
“In Ephesians 5:18 we are told not to be drunk with wine but to be filled with the spirit. What wine in excess can do, affecting our ability to think, so marijuana can do.”
This obviously has no relation to anything I’ve said previously as I’m talking about the use of cannabis constituents other than THC which don’t produce a euphoric state similar to alcohol. The similarity of alcohol to cannabis itself is misleading because these act on different neurotransmitter systems (and some in opposite ways) and alcohol is far stronger because it’s not a partial agonist. The bible is not against responsible use of wine and medical cannabis use is obviously responsible use so the bible has nothing to say about this matter as far as I can tell. As far as the abuse of the medical system goes extremely physically addicting opiates are a standby of modern medicine but I never hear christians argue for their banning though people often obtain prescriptions illegitimately, because they’re recognized as being able to do things nothing else can when used responsibly. The same is true for the responsible use of cannabis, this binds to a unique receptor system that other substances simply don’t bind to in the same selective way. This receptor system is likely very important to schizophrenia and was a recent significant medical discovery.
Or when I hear this:
“Please explain where we’ve bent the interpretation of Scripture. And we do not judge those who smoke pot. God is the ultimate judge. We simply believe that Scripture does not condone smoking pot and getting high, which is what most people use marijuana for. Even those who supposedly use it for medical purposes often use it to get high.”
I clearly directed my comments not at you, because you’d already stated your position previously that you’re not against strict valid medical use, though you don’t believe this exists according to your link, but at people who do see cannabis use period as being against christianity. I think I’ve demonstrated the hypocrisy of this clearly and since you haven’t argued against any of my claims I assume you must agree. I made no sweeping generalizations because those who condemn medical use of cannabis on religious grounds truly believe that any use of this plant is immoral enough to justify long-term imprisonment and extreme punishment. What is your opinion about the use of cannabis constituents medically then which can’t be used recreationally, like CBD, because they produce no cognitive impairment or euphoric effect?
Dear Brother Will,
You write, “I think I’ve demonstrated the hypocrisy of this clearly and since you haven’t argued against any of my claims I assume you must agree.”
You have clearly pointed out a hypocritical lie told by those that have departed from the faith. They can’t and won’t accept God’s will on this matter.
The Holy Spirit warned us about them.
1st Timothy Chapter 4:1-5
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
Genesis 1:29
And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
If they can’t believe the First Chapter of the First Book of the Holy Bible… then God help them.
It is a spiritual battle and they are the evil ones.
Genesis 1: Marriage and meats.
1st Timothy 4: Marriage and meats.
Revelation 19: Marriage and meats.
Pretty much says it all.
See ya at the Marriage Supper!
Poor Sinner
I certainly don’t see how people justifying their desires for a recreational drug through the bible is a bigger problem than 3 million people being denied legal access to safe medication that could mean the difference between living a normal life and living a life of perpetual suffering and poverty, perhaps you have a weak grasp of ethics or didn’t actually understand what I said.
We didn’t make this argument. CBD may well have valid use as an anti-psychotic. And the link posted does not mean we definitively believe that marijuana has absolutely no value as medicine. However, the detriments (in our opinion) outweigh the positives. Again, you generalize. And again, our goal is simply to bring people into a closer relationship with the Jesus of the Bible, not to say that marijuana has no value whatsoever. But we do believe that marijuana (in general) causes more problems than it fixes. I have seen lives ruined by it. And as a teacher, I continue to see lives being ruined by it—year after year.
The bible is not against responsible use of wine and medical cannabis use is obviously responsible use so the bible has nothing to say about this matter as far as I can tell.
Agreed.
What is your opinion about the use of cannabis constituents medically then which can’t be used recreationally, like CBD, because they produce no cognitive impairment or euphoric effect?
If it’s legal and useful then why not? Our main argument is that marijuana use is not something that is supported Scripturally. And, as this thread has developed, we’ve seen ample opportunity to share what our experiences with marijuana (what we’ve personally experienced and seen) have led us to believe.
“Our main argument is that marijuana use is not something that is supported Scripturally.”
That is a lie. You twist God’s word and scripture to come up with a way to support a lie like that.
“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.” 1 Timothy Chapter 4:1-4
I have put you into remembrance of these words…
Choose carefully the path you take from here.
27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
“And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein [there is] life, [I have given] every green herb for meat: and it was so.
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was] very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.” Genesis Chapter 1:27-31
Poor Sinner
Ok, I don’t mean that you directly made the argument that drug abuse is a bigger problem than schizophrenia victims being denied medication, but that’s what your argument amounts to when you say quite a few times very clearly that “the detriments … outweight the positives” I don’t see how the case for that argument has been made basically, though I’ve demonstrated a counter argument against it which has not at all been even discussed let alone refuted. What you’ve demonstrated fairly convincingly is that “marijuana use is not something that is discussed in the scripture” the list of things not supported by scripture is obviously far larger than the list of things supported by it so this doesn’t tell us much of anything about the thing, it being supported or not by the bible.
CBD is currently a schedule one drug in the US, which is the same scheduling for heroin and above that of cocaine, opium and meth, despite the fact that it has been demonstrated to be more useful medically than standard medications and has an extremely low toxicity and negative side effect profile. The fact is that all of the evidence that has been gathered on this compound is totally against the position of the government and the same could be said for THC acid which is potentially very useful for it’s antiinflammatory properties. I don’t really have anything against your position on this matter, I just wanted to make clear that the information you presented was misleading and is potentially offensive to people who take this subject seriously. There have been important mistakes made in legislature which actually affect large numbers of people and this problem needs to be approached in a rational way, dogmatic sectarian arguments are the norm within the standard debate on this subject and are rarely founded upon comprehensive empirical research.
Also what I’d like to know is if you support the illegality of recreational cannabis use what do you think about making alcohol completely against the law as well as opiate based pain killers? Both are definitely more dangerous than cannabis both physically and mentally. Alcohol obviously has no medical benefits at all but its use is completely tolerated though its withdrawl symptoms include death and it’s been demonstrated to be extremely neurotoxic with a high overall toxicity relative to dose. Opiates though significantly more dangerous due to withdrawl symptoms and overdose potential are perfectly acceptable treatments, their efficacy is apparently approximately equal to cannabis constituents. When injected a similar pain killing ability to morphine was obtained because this allows the blood brain barrier to be more fully transcended. It just seems very internally contradictory when the standard opinion of the christian community is very accepting of alcohol and opiates while realizing their dangers but is so extremely concerned with cannabis, which is really a far less dangerous drug to society in terms of actual harm.
Dear Brother Tim,
You write, “They argue that marijuana is an herb and and God says in Genesis 1:29 that He has given man every herb that yields seed which is on the face of the earth. Both of these statements are true. But we cannot run too far in our conclusion from these truths. Crownvetch yields seeds and is poisonous. Nightshade yields seeds and is poisonous. The poinsettia yields seed and is poisonous. Hemlock yields seeds and is poisonous. Every day, we have to choose between plants that are good for us and those that are not. God is not commanding us to eat of every poisonous plant.”
Why would I eat a poisonous plant like crownvetch, nightshade, poinsettia, or hemlock? Why would I ever marry someone of the same sex as I.
I have a three chapter challenge for you…
Genesis Chapter One
1st Timothy Chapter Four
Revelation Chapter Nineteen
Question: What do all three chapters have in common?
Answer: Marriage and meats.
1 Timothy 4:1-4. The Authorized Version.
4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
You write, “There are two fundamental ways of approaching Scripture. The first way is to seek to find in Scripture support for what we want to do. The second way is to seek to find in Scripture how we should be changed (see 2 Corinthians 3:18).”
So do you endorse changing scripture and laws to fit the needs of Satan?
You write, “Further, in most States in the United States, the use of marijuana is against the law.”
“Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s.” I shall never relinquish my God-given right to to marry or my God-given right grow and partake in God-given plants.
Do you even have a clue as to why Satan is against marriage and meats?
No you don’t… And therein lies your hypocritical lie.
Does your conscience burn much?
BTW… If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.
Sincerely yours, Poor Sinner.
**********************ALL you need to know is that God put marijuana on this earth for his people to enjoy. It has been scientifically PROVEN that it can CURE any disease known to man, even cancer. You don’t believe me? Look up Rick Simpson’s Pheonix Tears, there are plenty stories from regular people, just like you and me, and everything they were trying didn’t work at all, so they decided to give Pheonix Tears (Medicinal Hemp Oil) a try. Of course the annointing oil had cannabis in it, every single oil they had back then had cannabis in it. This research, of course would not be spread publically because our officials run this entire world. Even they smoke weed, but they are more worried about losing the money they are making from marijuana being illegalized. It is God who judges us in the end, not the elite, even though they say marijuana is illegal, who are they to make these accusations? They will be judged in the end and I’m sure they would give anything to have changed the way they were living their life. On another topic everyone should be worried about, BLACK MAGIC is REAL. The elite may have already cheated death, nobody knows for sure but them, and they may avoid being judged by God when they die because of the Satanic Rituals they perform. Don’t believe me? Do your research on the Bohemian Grove. People, it’s ALL AROUND US. Thank You.
I think that the real applicable teaching here is the one of offenses. Hang in there with me for a bit please.
If we are honest with ourselves as believers we must admit that both assertions 1. That cannabis use is a sin and 2. cannabis use is not a sin have their weakness and cannot be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. I think Yeshua was clear in saying that nothing a man eats makes him clean or unclean. The things that come from a man’s heart determine cleanliness (holiness) and uncleanliness. Which is why he came to change hearts not habits. I find the modern church’s definitive assertion on this matter to be absurd and misleading, and to be leaning heavily on the legalistic/nonrelational side aka fear driven. We do this with small children when they are young. We scare them to make them aware that there are indeed things in this world to be afraid of.
Paul taught the same as the Master clearly: Christ makes clean and free. A weaker brother in the faith may have a conscience that may not allow him to partake in the same things as a brother who has a clear conscience before God in what he or she partakes in. Holiness does not come from prohibiting oneself from nonsinful pleasure in this life. It comes through the blood of Christ. The weaker brother is not to condemn the one who is free to partake (after all how can you judge another man’s servant). And the stronger brother is not to have contempt for the weaker brother who is the one who believes that sanctification comes from what you put into your body. Infact the stronger brother is to give up his freedom to partake for the sake of relationship. (BTW isnt it interesting that Paul says that the STRONGER brother partakes. Opposite of the fear driven prohibitionism taught by many sadly.)
It really grieves my heart to see the legalistic and non- relational way that this issue is discussed. I think it is not a sin based on my reading in scripture, my wife and some of my friends believe that it is a sin. I do not partake because i do not wish to offend the one I love my wife. Our RELATIONSHIP is more important than any pleasure, sinful or not, that this world has to offer. I do not promote cannabis use either, as it may be a stumbling block leading to addiction but I believe people should be free to choose without being automatically JUDGED as sinners. If you are offended by canabis use please do not make the assumption that you are right. This is an issue that God left (I believe intentionally) in a gray area. You afterall may be the weaker brother. I sincerely believe that these things should be prayed through with Him and decided through that relationship as opposed to making up pseudosafety rules tat ultimately may be leading us into judging our brothers and sisters. Thank you for reading this.
Wow after reading your response to that person who referenced abuse of things and their child. I find your argument points about this issue to be very religous (in the bad sense). Any form of levelness you offer here seems to be merely for show. The summary of your argument was: I know strong Christian brothers who USED cannabis, however, their advice to someone who would want to grow in Christ would be to no longer partake because giving it up will bring you closer to God. I believe you said something like: “Thinking you can use cannabis and be a vibrant follower of Christ is deceptive thinking.” On what basis is this statement true? Certainly not a biblical basis as you have admitted the lack of clarity of the scripture on the matter. Instead you obliquely appeal to intimacy with Christ being the measure and then out of nowhere state that the getting rid of cannabis is the only way to do that. I lol at that argument. It is absurd and self referential. I could say that about your favorite pleasurable activity ad infinitum: “Thinking you can use those type of religious values and arguments and be a vibrant follower of Christ is deceptive thinking” or just fill in the blank. Anyway I personally believe what Paul said over the modern Prohibitionism being preached from the pulpit. And I dont even choose to use cannabis. There are lots of good/more logical reasons not to use cannabis. I wish my brothers would quit the holier than thou opining over others (Christ was Holier but didnt push that) and break out of “cultural christianity” which resembles more a high school popularity contest than the Holy people we are supposed to be. The world can smell the mechanisms of the world a million miles away. They are not buying it because we keep trying to sell it. We keep making requirements of brothers and sisters to be a part of our communities and when they dont “fit in” or agree with us on secondary issues we subtley reject them on the basis stated above “thinking you can x and be a vibrant follower of Christ is deceptive thinking. HOW DO YOU KNOW? It is very clear: a man cannot judge another man’s servant. At best you can say, on secondary issues 1. It offends me please dont do that around me or 2. It doesnt offend me but it’s not for me. Thats all scripture allows. Why go further into sin and judgement….I just don’t get it. I dont mean to be harsh but i am very disappointed with this kinds of divisive posturing in dear brothers. I would be open to a response or even a sound solid rebuttal. Bless you.
It has been a while since I have read through the comments on this blog. I want to add a few things to think about. First, the great concern is the welfare of people. What helps guide people to that straight gate Jesus mentions (Matthew 7:14) is what believers seek to do. Few people find that gate. Yet, we want to be those who point people to that narrow way. And that way is Jesus Himself (John 14:6). Supporting or opposing marijuana is not the focal point of believers. Our cause as Christians must be Christ. And I do not expect non-Christians to understand this. But I expect those who call themselves Christians to embrace Jesus as our singular cause.
Second, we are in an age of rebellion against the value of wisdom. Not everything that is dangerous to us is mentioned in Scripture. I realize that for some there is an understandable reaction to the judgmental attitude of some Christians who make mountains out of matters that may not be sin. But the proper response to such attitude is not to remain silent when wisdom would say there is danger. Scripture speaks much about wisdom. If everything was spelled out in Scripture, there would be no need for wisdom. But it is precisely because Scripture is not ultimately a code of dos and don’ts (and I think intentionally so), that wisdom informs the wise in what is good and what is evil. Hebrews 5:14 speaks of those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. There is value in the counsel of wisdom in discerning those matters not expressly addressed by Scripture. And for those who desire wisdom, her voice is not silent. Wise counsel will protect us from that which harms us and will teach us to pursue that which ultimately will benefit us and humanity.
If we do not listen to the wisdom of the wise, we end up doing what is right in our own eyes. Though this may be a virtue in our present culture, it is not a virtue with God (Deuteronomy 12:8).
When I was younger, I did not appreciate this truth as much as I do today. There are struggles I could have avoided if I had listened to the wisdom of my elders. But there are also struggles I have avoided because I listened to wise counsel.
And, if wisdom is made known by her children (Matthew 11:19), then one may look to the lives of those who use marijuana and those who do not as one way of discerning wisdom on the subject. In my observations, there have been those who do not represent Christ on both sides of this matter (users and non-users). But what I have yet to find is a person who personally uses and who also is acknowledged by other strong Christian leaders as a vibrant example of what a Scriptural elder should be. If such people exist, they are rare. I have known many people who have used and when they sought to follow Christ wholly, they were inwardly convicted of their use and gave it up. And I have seen how God has transformed their lives.
None of this is to say that a Christian cannot smoke marijuana. Nor is it to say that all wisdom lies on one side or the other of the debate. But not everything said on the subject is wise. And it seems to me from my own observations, from listening to the various arguments, and wading through the “experts” on both sides of the issue, that wisdom lies in refraining from using for those who are believers.
Hmm again I find this a bit self referential to your baseline value system. Ask yourself why someone who uses cannabis would not be appointed as an elder in the church today…it is pretty much because they are using cannabis. The assessment of qualification as an elder tends to hold to the values of the elders in place. Most elders, in my experience would say (imo unscripturally) that smoking cannabis is a sin. Those who say they are not clear about it would still hedge their bets on the conservative side. So the fact that there are no elders who use cannabis (openly) proves really nothing at all. Cannabis and the gray area that it is somehow becomes a litmus test…this has more to do with it’s legal status (which I believe is oppresion) than anything else.
As for Strong Christian Leaders, again self referential in a similar way. You have picked out your Strong Christian Leaders according to those who agree with you. I maintain that Christians, especially in America, should be ANGRY that fellow citizens lives are ruined for possesing a plant. Instead you Strong Christian leaders turn their eyes away from the poor and oppresed imo. Those are strong Christian leaders imo, not yours. Knowing wht the Bible and the Spirit says on matters like this is the key to unlocking how to deal with these differences in relationship. Jesus didn’t die for us to allow these issues to seperate us. When one side of the issue rests on bogus arguments like: the Bilbles not clear but it’s illegal…well it can be addictive….well it whatever. It cheapens the dialogue. I dont find people who employ those arguments to be strong at all. As for me I am with Paul on this today’s church must be confronted like Peter at the kosher table either Christ make us clean or not…
The most troubling thing is how fear driven this prohibitionism is. A friend of mine said it well “regulations replace relationship so in the two to four hours they see eachother each week, Christians can feel like they belong”. This is the very heart of the politcal “social conservatism” or better known as “socialism” that has infected the church body. Everyone, even nonbelievers, need to behave the way that we think is right…God doesnt force people to not use cannabis whether he agrees with the habit or not…Christians feel comfortable supporting politics that force others into line with their own beliefs. This is not what Christ taught.
Perfect love cast out all fear, those who fear are not perfected in love. Don’t be afraid of cannabis or cannabis users. Fear the heart condition of idolatry no matter what the habit or substance. Anyway…I feel very strongly that God has so much more for His people. He must wonder why we squeeze ourselves into cardboard boxes when His house is big enough for everyone. Christ first.
The issue for spiritual leadership is not marijuana. The issue is one of mature spirituality. The qualifications for spiritual leadership are set forth in 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1. And these are the qualifications that I have not found among those who use marijuana. Besides the other qualifications, a leader must also have the respect of the church body and be without reproach outside the church. As the Apostle Paul makes it very clear, if this means giving up one’s right to drink or smoke, the mark of a mature Christian is that they are willing to sacrifice such matters for the sake of the flock.
Again, this is not to say that those who use marijuana cannot be Christians. But as we mature as Christians, our focus shifts from defending our rights to pursuing what is best for others. And for some of us, it means engaging in trying to provide wise advice for those who seek direction in the area of marijuana or other drugs. In my observations, I have not found marijuana to be productive in producing a spirituality that leads people to become missionaries for Christ, to become leaders in their local churches, Bible teachers, or strong evangelists. And this is true whether one exists in a country like ours where marijuana in some situations is against the law or whether one exists in a country like Holland or some third-world countries where marijuana use is allowed. Whether there is a cause and effect relationship between the use of marijuana and the leadership drought by those who use marijuana, I cannot definitively say. I simply note, in seeking to provide advice to others on how to mature as Christians, I find no compelling evidence to suggest that marijuana use helps. I do find evidence that those who have given up marijuana have grown thereafter spiritually in remarkable ways. I have listened to their testimonies. Their testimonies provide compelling evidence to me that marijuana use was hindering their spiritual growth. And the goal of the believer is to grow in grace and in the knowledge of Jesus Christ.
I’m deeply disturbed with the taboo label that has been given to cannabis, after having many, not a few, but 9 loved ones in my family passing away from cancer, which started a s skin cancer. I’m appalled at the lack of intelligence regarding cannibas being able to cure cancer. David Triplett has a video where it clearly shows that cannabis oil kills cancer cells and after losing so many family members whom I loved dearly including my Dad I feel like someone has finally pulled the wool from in front of my eyes and educated me. HYPOCRITES and MURDERS is what society is full of, I’m tierd of having to defend this same subject and feel like this is some kind of genicide towards human life! You have all been brainwashed like I was that it is evil, you must agree with your Government on their chemtrails too!!!…How can a God given plant that literally kills cancer cells and leaves all others untouched, like two pieces of a puzzle fitting perfectly together be illegal, but my doctor can perscribe me morphene which comes from Poppy plants, which also makes cocaine. I’ll stick to my cannabis because I can still have my thinker in full gear and always be in control. The bull you all take from our evil hypocritical so called leaders is offensive, and makes me so angry that they would keep this a secret from sick individuals. Open your eyes, I guess the closed-minded people of the world would rather do chemo….good luck with that, but I must say I think it’s unfair for you to subect your children and loved ones to a bunch of evil people’s money making chemotheropy scam while withholding the truth from everyone since 1970 because there’s no money it it for them, anyone can grow their own medicine and they’d lose billions from the pharmacutical sales. Sickening as it is our God tells us to forgive, and thats what I’m doing today…forgiving our leaders for the genicide…I somehow think God will be more judgemental once the day of age is here for surely man will continue down this path and never change for the sake of their children and what they will have to endure. Judge and you will be judged…judge not and you will not be judged. Peace and God Bless all the lost sheep for God will show us the way, while evil trys to destroy us and turn us against each other and try to run our lives. Freedom of choice is something given to man and man has taken that away from man and re-interpreted the Original Contitution to fit his evil ways. Repeant and it doesn’t matter what enters the body, it’s what comes out of it that matters. Watch out for anyone who tells you what to do except your God and the Holy Spirit, for the power of the people voted to make this legal many years ago when it was first discovered to cure cancer in the 70’s. Ask yourself what is causing all this cancer maybe the question here is who? Since cannabis became illegal in the 18th and 19th century after being legal without restriction since 1600 BC, George Washington had it as 1 of his major crops…hypocrites…they are the ones telling you NO, NO while science and common sense say it cures cancer among many other ailments. God Bless all mankind for he knows not what he does, especially regarding the children, you feed them Ritalin and anti-depressants instead of a God given natural cure, you are poisoning your own with toxic pharmacuticals and wonder why they get cancer!!! I would think long and hard before I believed anything anymore right down to the Bible being revised…God condems those who do that..yet it has been done, think about it and Good luck I’ll see you in heaven if you make it and God Bless everyone those lives lost to cancer unnessessarily and especially the children, whom God condems anyone if they cause harm to our little angels. Keep putting them through chemo and see where you end up, the choice is yours! Wake up people this is pure dictatorship and in my eyes that is evil!!!
For anyone out there who doesn’t know any better the devil weed, otherwise known as Datura Stramonium and is very harmful look it up in Wikipedia and it is nothing like a cannabis plant. It is a weed, a cannabis plant is a tree that comes from a seed and from where I stand it is the Tree of life and thats why we aren’t allowed it by the new Criminal Bill. Sure enough it is the true devil weed and those of you who do use cannabis here this, my Aunt is very religious and said she is happy I prayed to God for my medicine and received my papers to do it legally very quickly, this process usually takes many months. Miricles are there and God will answer you. So don’t feel like you’re going to hell because of cannabis, it’s not mentioned in the Bible because it was used for everything. Anyone who’s interested in the real picture and loved JFK watch a utube video called The Only President Who Ever Told The Truth, it was probably why he died and they’re using their new privicy law to have it blocked. Good Luck and God Bless everyone especially all the little kids out there who are suffering because of grownups actions.
The gentleman who was arguing about Calamus otherwise know as Keneh Bosem was absolutly right. It was only meant for Royalty and Prophets mainly because it opens what is called the Third Eye, (which is on the pope’s staff and looks like an acron, but was an ingrediant of the Holy annoiting oil. I really hope people stop judging and do a little digging themselves. Look up holy oil in Wikipedia and you can see for yourselves the deception you’ve all fallen victum too, God said to watch out for this. I seen a famous drawing of the tree of life and unfortunatly it also shows how man has fallen away from it. Stand up for your right to life why should the rich keep this from the sick and poor…because God will be true to his word and the MEEK shall inheirt the earth. It’s too bad that it had to come to this, so many lives lost and I feel the worst is yet to come. It’ll be a shame explaining this to the little ones of the earth who already fear that adults have ruined the earth for them to inherit. God Bless
For one thing, Wikipida is not a reliable resorce for information by far.
And two, MEEK- Quiet, gentle, and easily imposed on; submissive
Wouldn’t that be the marijuana users….?
Good to see ignorance spreading! Keep up the good work! Might want to do some actual research next time ass clown.
Which part of the article (specifically) do you disagree with? I have noticed that people who yell the loudest and call the most names seem to think that they’ve won the argument somehow. So by calling us “ass clowns” how have you made any sort of intelligent argument?
As a fellow believer, I need some help from you all. Around a year ago, I first smoked marijuana. I never had really thought about God at all at this time. However, while high, I literally was filled with the spirit, and within the next couple of weeks, I was a believer. I know this is extremely rare. All my friends use marijuana to “have fun” or “escape their problems.” For me it is extremely the opposite. When I am high, it gives me extreme clarity and I see the truly important things in my life I am neglecting. I was not reading the Bible much, and was putting family off, but once high, I really evaluated these aspects of my life and literally cried and repented. Once sober, nothing had changed. I still had these convictions that had come upon me while I was high. This marijuana I am sure has a spiritual aspect to it. Whether or not this is sent from Satan is what I am struggling to find out, but honestly, I truly believe that this weed helped me to be saved.
Thanks for the comment. God can use all sorts of ways to bring us to Himself. The important thing is that we follow Christ, we learn from Scripture, and we seek to please and honor Him. As we have stated in the past, this site is not anti-marijuana. But neither is it pro-marijuana. There are reasons enough to be concerned about marijuana use, and they are not all based on conspiracy theories of people who want to make money on other products and take away happiness and freedom. But the issue for Christians is the call in Scripture to be sober and watchful. We want to be counted among those who are worthy when Jesus returns for us. And the bigger issue is that we want to love our God with all of our heart in truth by the things we do, and not simply be the feelings we have. The test of faith is not what we do when we have feelings favorable towards God, but what do we do when our feelings are contrary to God. Genuine faith, in those moments, makes choices to walk with God, even when walking with God seems hard. May the Lord Jesus and His Spirit guide you into greater holiness, peace, and joy in service to Him.
dude, i feel you.
i often don’t know.sometimes i wonder why there aren’t real explicit answers to this.
but thats when i realize,maybe we do all have to chill out and not worry about it so much. the focus should be on the Word of God, our brothers here on this earth, and loving God, right? I have fallen into the obsession of marijuana over the years. I feel I wasted time and a great deal of money, just like I used to on clothes as a teen growing up shopping every weekend. I attribute this more to this american/capitalistic way of life of overconsumption. we need to forfeit these treasures at any point God calls on us, marijuana included.
i have been struggling a lot with overindulging my thoughts in things revolving around weed. with all this medical stuff coming out, and seeing its beneficial effects on my own body to some degree, i find it hard not to get it out of my mind. but i feel like at the end of the day, i am spending way too much time thinking about it, and the thoughts need to revolve around God. I don;t know if you are even close to being in my situation, but either way, I hope you can know it wasn’t pot that saved you, it had nothing to do with it…It was God and God alone.
quote: “Marijuana and other drugs are not necessary for life”
You lie, wench, and you bear false witness. I charge you before God, in the square for the people to see and bear witness. Let me speak.
Marijuana cures cancer, and nothing else known to man does. All the research you so lovingly refer too in fact bears that out. More than 6,000,000 family members worldwide are going to die from cancer this year alone, and the only thing provided by god that would help them, that would restore them, you would deny them to let them waste away and perish to corruption, because you are false, you have no compassion, no mercy for the sick, you are one of those people that can justify any foul deed, indifferent to the sufferings in your own flock, your own kind, so good shepherd you are not, enlightened you are not, and against gods plan do you stand.
You will know them by their fruits.
This is not gods way. The sick have been provided for, it is his will, his mercy to man, and you must stand aside in this. The tree of knowledge is forbidden, but not the tree of life.
I’m a wench? Nobody’s ever called me that before.
Marijuana cures cancer? Really? Do a lot of people agree with you?
Well King James Version of the Bible Isaiah Chapter. 6 Clearely shows how to get baptisted by fire (marijuana out of a hooka) the train(smoke) from the mouth piece. Tongs moving Coal. they are smokin a hooka and unclean lips. duh. Jesus Is a Role-model how to live your life but he did not die for our sins. Our long lost Tribe of Zion been has been buried and trampled on for 2 centuries… If you notice Zion on is coming back even though the people representing is doing it for medical and selfish reasonings. God is the energy the made the world and the universe and matter itself. God Gave us GANGA You Humans made the Alchohol and all the other drugs. marijuana is Rescourceful. All these trees we destroyed for resources was a Lie and for Finacial Benifits the hempcould of made What we needed the wood for paper toothpicst ect . on top of that it could of been cheaper and easier to have resources for clothes, fuel, more oxygen, healthier enviroment. and even out beat plastic.. it was all for financial gain. and all that had nothing to do with getting high…we could of still at least kept the hemp and prevented from all these animals getting killd
Wow. How did I not see that?
marijuana is the only “drug” that is not chemcially made or tampered with. its the only “drug” that is impossible to overdose on. its the only “drug” that has many benefits and little to no negative effects. God created it. and only God is capable of making such a “drug”. Us humans have made drugs, but all of them can kill you. the only reason marijuana is looked down upon is because it is considered illegal, just like alcohol was during prohibtion but look at alcohol now. i feel like if marijuana had been legalized years ago we wouldnt be having this discussion.
Really? Are psychedelic mushrooms tampered with?
Really? It’s not looked down upon because it’s bad for your lungs? It’s not looked down upon because it’s addictive (argue all you want; it’s addictive)? It’s not looked down upon because it deadens your senses? It’s not looked down upon because it’s expensive? I look down upon it for all those reasons and more.
For all of the people that say marijuana is ungodly and demonic. Read: Genesis 1:29.
“Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you.” ”
The bible also states that God gave us all of these plants, trees, and herbs and they are to be taken thankfully. Now for all of the people who claim marijuana to be a terrible substance are you really taking what God gave you with respect and thankfulness? No, because you are too worried with your own agendas and beliefs to even take the time to consider God’s greater purpose.
So for most non marijuana smoking Christians who says this herb is bad I ask you why this one plant? Why not thyme or lavender? Why choose this one specific herb to criticize? Just because you do not agree with it does not necessarily mean that it is false. Most people need to really open their eyes, minds, and hearts and realize that thousands of people die each year from alcohol (poisoning and traffic accidents) but not from marijuana. When was the last time you have heard of someone being poisoned by marijuana? Don’t worry I’ll wait. Go right now and google it… Please, respond with all of your findings to prove my point. Alcohol is 1,000% worst for you than marijuana ever could be. So the next time you pop open a bud light think about what God would say. Marijuana is made by GOD and was given to us for medical purposes. The seed of the marijuana herb actually contains almost as much protein as a soy bean. Maybe we should work on legalizing marijuana and criminalizing alcohol.
Hmmmm. Where does the Bible say this? And does the Bible tell me to take hemlock thankfully?
You seem to forget that I wasted years of my life on this one plant. Money spent, brain cells killed . . . sure, the plant gave me good times. But it also deadened my senses, left me penniless and depressed, almost ruined my college education, got me in with a dangerous crowd of people and it killed my lung capacity. Once I quit smoking I regained control of my life. So I don’t need to google whether or not people can be poisoned by marijuana. I know it firsthand. And I agree with you that alcohol is dangerous as well.
So should we eat poison ivy also because it’s a plant? Did God not bless us with a mind to perceive what is good and what is bad. Not only that but doesn’t marijuana dehydrate your blood and destroy brain cells? Is this really honoring God or just making you stupid?
Exodus 1:29 Then God says ” I give you (every) seed bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it.
Ok now all people and christian people Exodus 1:29 says every seed bearing plant so what is so hard to understand that god created everything and if he created everything then is for a purpose using mans free will. It’s the greedy judgemental and hateful man that changes everything to fit his way of what is right. from what I know there was a time where only europeans controlled religion(the catholic church) and told people what to do and what to believe in and in those time countless people got killed if they didn’t live according to the bible or kings rule and those where the same people that kept rewritting the bible to what we have today. The only difference to back then and now is christian name call and tell you that you are going to hell instead of killing you. I mean there are so many bibles out there, but none of them is consistent with what god says or his disciples and the meaning of going to church to is be a better person more godly and doing things the way jesus would do it and to finding the truth for yourself, which god says ask him for the truth and trust in him. I mean if you can’t follow that then why are you going to church. Is it not to build your relationship with god and not to worry about someone else. because the bible already say only a few is going to heaven and jesus said god is in you, but then no one has ever seen the god in the sky, but they create all this hate and judging. and jesus live to long ago for people to have factual information on him. The bible is only collection of the beginning of the worlds history on what a few decides to what is right and to search for their meaning of life and there creator. mind you those people back then did not have the knowledge and mind we have today. I mean come on how can you call someoone an atheist but noone knows the actual truth or has consistent information and most people don’t follow the bible right anyway because the bible says to fast and eat right and to help people but all I ever see is constant judging, name calling and suffering that’s a good way to go heaven. I believe God created all things good and bad(at least what man calls bad) but in the end what is good for someone else might not be good for others. I mean everybody does not have the same taste, but that is there habit pass down by man. So which one you would rather go with the one that might work well with your body cannibus or the one that they keep doing call backs on and getting sued over and killing people.
This is the only difference? And are you claiming that all Christians call people names and tell people they’re going to hell? I would respond to more of your post but it’s incoherent and difficult to understand.
Dear Me,
I found your article very intriguing. As a smoker, I was interested in what the Bible said about marijuana. You presented enough proof and argument against the use of the word now translated as marijuana in the Bible. It appears quite clear that the word in question has been translated as “calamos” without any speculation of it having another meaning. 72 scholars, several separately translated versions all pointing to its translation to be “calms” is something that is hard to question. I think people should research your claims, see the truth, and stop obsessing over marijuana.
One thing I have to question is:
I suspect few people actually use them because they believe the drugs are drawing them into a deeper study of God’s word, a deeper concern for others, or greater self-control, which is one of the marks that the Spirit of God is truly in control of one’s life (Galatians 5:23).
I have many times consumed it and indulged in the Word, pondered about life. Looked at the clouds, at the stars, the trees, the sun, the grass, and felt completely connected to Yahweh. The usual psychological side-affects I and many of my mates experience: patience, kindness, relaxation, negative feelings toward fighting and aggression, positive thoughts, speak words of kindness, uplifting things. usually we vent about our day. we don’t feel compelled to play video games or waste time doing those sort of things. we relax. we verbally communicate. i don’t necessarily see whats so bad about it.
either way, we all need to chill out. weed shouldn’t be on your mind all the time. Think of Yahweh in all you do.
Please criticize me, tear apart my words. I have often reversed my opinion on matters because I was convinced otherwise. Why should I not invite anyone to change my opinion? If you speak the truth, I want to hear it. I love the truth and that is why I love “Me’s”blog: the truth is, marijuana isn’t discussed in the Bible, as far as we know, and I trust the 72 scholars who had no reason to change the meaning. And if they did, whatever…it’s still like all but a few times mentioned in that form..apparently nothing God wants us to totally obsess about.
Go out there and be the salt of the earth, the fruit of the spirit, and love thy God and thy neighbor.
I am weaning myself off this marijuana because it was something I’ve been doing in college. I am older, gotta get a job. probably won’t smoke nearly as much. maybe in 2 years i won’t care to ever smoke. I used to hate cheese. now I crave it sometimes. I used to love red bull in my teens. now I detest it. chances are if you are into smoking you won’t be in five years. I’ve seen it with a lot of people. “hey, just one thing. just don’t become a pothead”, as the doctor who recommended marijuana for treatment of my acid reflux/gout told me.
I know a great doctor who doesn’t think its a big deal. to me, it is just an herbal remedy, a natural substance for relaxation and euphoria and relief of pain and nausea, but there are thousands of different kinds of natural remedies out there. there are so many different substances that can can psychological effects, but for some reason its all about weed. we need to move on..I promise in a few years you will wonder why you wasted so much money and were so concerned with pot..its like we used to be with crossing the street, walking to the store for the first time, cigarettes and drinking before it got old…everything of this earth gets old, EVERYTHING…we shouldn’t build up treasures. lets focus on Yahweh, men and women of this earth! Also, weed isn’t even the problem. Its over-consumption, and American ideology that is destroying this nation. we want everything. weed for some. liquor for some. clothes for some. jewelry for some. we need to evaluate our every action and we must glorify God in what we do. if it isn’t glorifying to God, we must stop.
I don’t smoke “pot”, due to the fact that my job drug tests and I have bills to pay, but I’ve done extensive research in this field and have found that there are many medicinal uses for the substance that far surpass the negative side effects (which are typically due to the pesticides and other chemicals used when growing the plant, the fuel in your lighter, or the stuff your papers are made of, and can typically be avoided by choosing quality marijuana and smoking it using a vaporizor) As far as what the bible says, it repeats the fact that you should be sober and have no other gods before the one true God, therefore you probably shouldn’t get high on a daily basis. I won’t even go in to all the other gods people put before God, with television, music, and the people associated with such media outlets, or the fact that in my 23 years on this earth I’ve met maybe three individuals who are truly non-judgmental, but every man woman and child must work out their own salvation with Christ, if you feel something you do is a sin and you continue to do it, it has become sin.
Blasphemy, claiming to know the true intent of God’s creations which only exist as an answer in God’s mind. You worship the United States of America not God. Wake up Christians the bible is the answer not uneducated humans!
Ummmm . . . now you’re claiming to know the true intent of my mind. Funny, isn’t it?
Hi Mr Truthsaves,
First of all even if kaneh bosem is calamus in the anointing oil, you clearly haven’t researched calamus otherwise you would realize that Calamus is a psychoactive plant and has even been even documented as an aphrodisiac. If God didn’t intend to use the properties of plants on humans, why did he instruct this to be used or indeed make the plants with these properties….? Who are they intended for, the sheep….?
I find it so typical of Christians like you to so fiercely defend your supposedly “Biblical” view against using cannabis, when it is so clear that you are just trying to defend YOUR VERSION of Christianity. Why is it that you will use scriptures like “God has called us to have a sober mind” to sanction against the use of cannabis, yet you conveniently ignore scriptures such as “God has given us all the seed bearing plants for our use” or “it is not what goes into your mouth that makes you unclean but what comes out of your heart and mouth” or “the kingdom of God is neither food nor drink but peace and love in the holy spirit” etc.
Also your argument that “well God made hemlock, why don’t you go and smoke hemlock!?” is such a ridiculous argument. Take morphine for example, I’m sure you are fine with the use of this drug in hospitals, due to the fact that your government says it’s fine and legal……but hang on you can overdose on it….!!?? Does that make it evil? For that matter you can die from alcohol poisoning if you drink too much wine! Does that mean wine is evil? Surely not my friend. Your argument is a very childish one.
Also you mentioned above that you are not aware of any medicinal properties of cannabis, well seriously brother you need to do some research, I shall help you get started.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0psJhQHk_GI
Next, there is the issue of how our body accepts cannabis and THC. If you believe that God made us then you should know that you body is biologically made to accept cannabis. This is in the form of the receptor cells that God has given us in many parts of the body that are there ONLY TO RECEIVE CANNABINOIDS. Cannabinoids exist in our bodies, but outside of that they only exist in TWO OTHER PLACES: the Cannabis plant and the Echinacea plant. Do you know what the endocannabinoid system is? It truly is yet another wonder of the human body, here is some links to get you started.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbNXQw8Xk2w
Now my friend in light of this information the fact is that you are going to have to explain why God has given us these receptors if he didn’t intend us to use Cannabis. And before you say that “yeah but we have opiate receptors too, does that mean God wants us to take heroin” the answer to that is that there are many foods that have opiates in them which is why we have these receptors, whereas I have already explained that the ONLY place cannabinoids exist outside the human body is in the Echinacea plant and……CANNABIS. So explain that away.
Also I find it really incredible that so many people, including Christians could be so ignorant on the history of cannabis hemp. The fact is you believe that God made everything right? And smoking pot aside I imagine that you would be willing to concede (just) that the hemp plant has been a real blessing for mankind…..right? As in it was our first form of paper, we made rope and clothes out of it, not to mention sails for our ships that meant we could go and discover the earth. It could be argued that without hemp, the maritime potential of man would have been non existent. Do you know that during times of war in America as well as in England it used to be ILLEGAL NOT TO GROW HEMP in order to subsidize the army’s requirements. Therefore it is clear to see that God made the hemp plant for our service….right?…and without it we wouldn’t have had such a readily available material to make rope, clothes, paper (by the way MANY of the original scriptures would have been WRITTEN ON HEMP PAPER) …….so why, do YOU think that the female plant clearly has no use for us and God never intended us to use it…..? Where and how does that “logic” work. This was really impressed on me when I was doing my Masters Degree a few years ago on Urban Development at UCL in London and I did my thesis on “Sustainable Building Materials”. I chose hemp as my case study of a sustainable material. Do you know that you can build houses up to three stories high using hemp!!!! Once built they are also 40% more efficient at conserving heat than concrete houses. Here is a link giving you more information.
http://www.bringingithomemovie.com/hemp-houses
It was during this period of study, that as a Christian I was struck by the UNDENIABLE worth and blessing of this plant. Do you know that Henry Ford made the body work of his first car out of a hemp composite material. The car was 10 times more durable than steel and 7 times lighter, which would have meant that both fuel consumption as well as collision impact force would have been dramatically less than in our current steel cars !!!! Think how many lives and limbs would have been saved over the years. The car also ran on hemp oil! The point is that it suddenly occurred to me that if the male side of the hemp plant was sooooo amazing, what right does anyone have to say that the female plant is obviously an evil plant and no good to anyone and God did not intend us to use it…..!!!!??? The utter prejudice and short shortsightedness of the Christian attitude suddenly became so clear to me. This is YOU condemning the plant NOT GOD.
There is something that really annoys me about Christians like you and that is you insist that the Bible is the inerrant word of God and take many parts of it literally, up until you come up against a scripture that threatens YOUR version of Christianity. The fact is that in the bible it says nothing about smoking and the only reference you can find to anything resembling drugs is the word pharmakia when it talks about sorcery……and this word is where we get the word pharmacy from, yet I bet you have no problem at all taking pharmaceutical drugs, do you? You see my friend, it is in fact YOU who are guilty of searching scripture to defend YOUR point of view.
Anyway I hope God opens your judgmental eyes on this matter.
Love
James
I love it. Very well put sir.
and I’m a Christian. But I agree with you. Who knows. I read the Bible, but I also believe our government has a hand in what we see. Even when it comes to Religion. I go to church every Sunday. But I also believe that weed being illegal is absolutly, without a reason of a doubt, insane. But Uncle Sam will never admit he’s wrong.
The Bible doea not specifically talk about Marijuana. However, It does state in Genesis 1:29 that God and I quote “gives us all seed bearing herbs as food” and it also states in 1Timothy 4:1-4 and I quote “The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,”
your right it doesnt talk about marijuina becaus that word was made up by the klu klux klan in the 1930’s why would that be in the bible?
stop buying GMO foods from the supermarkets… stop taking vaccines and flu shots…. the American and European Government are SICK EVIL WAR CRIMINALS who inject toxic chemicals and poisons into our food supply
Look in your bible and look up that passage exodus 30:23 does not even have that word. The person who posted this is clearly trying to deceive you!
that word was mistranslated out of the original scripters. every were you see the word calyus or calus or talked about being ” filled with the spirit” or of using holy anointing oil the bible talks about cannabis. i could right a book about how all of the founding fathers of our country were really black not white. it doesn’t make it true.
This thread is a perfect example why people dislike biblethumpers. Who cares if someone decides to use marijuana, if you care about them you should pray for them and walk in love. God it’s capable of changing the heart and mind. Smoke a joint and chill!
why would you pray for someone who uses cannabis ? Yahweh made us to use cannabis. he didn’t make booze.
no matter what the chirstians tell you God doesnt make mistakes
God said every seed baring tree herb is good for food enough said.everything God made is good, and woe unto who ever say that what GOD made is bad. Dont believe. Seek and ye shall find it.
i have a medical condition called fybromyalgia . I ate the main ingredient of the holy anointion oil of christ and cured my injury 70-80% in 2 1/2 weeks. the healing power of yahweh is real and it is cannabis. not to say yahweh doesnt heal ppl miraclesly but then why do all the most devoteded christians die from cancer? They spend all there time praying for God to cure them when in reality he sent them the cannabis plant. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0psJhQHk_GI thats the documentary called run from the cure. i saw that and cured my sickness ( after 4 years of intence praying). well my prayer were answered. just not how the devil wants you to believe it to happen. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy66MUZP538 doc called what if cannabis cured cancer ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Md2WNqqxTQ medical cannabis and its impact on human health. those are two doc’s that was made by the best doctors in our country who was payed millions of dollors by congress to stuidy cannabis say some one who uses cannabis is way healther then someone who does no drugs at all. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgEP9FdIzT8 is about the power of raw cannabis juice in healing. its gets you as high as a glass of oj or milk and heals any sickness just like yahweh oil. cannabis is a vegi not a drug.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2633187.stm
bbc report ( i guess because our gov doesnt allow it to be reported on the usa’s tv it goes back in time and magicly changes Yahwehs works? ) about how the dead sea scrolls says christ used cannabis to heal ppl just like me or my dog who used to have glaucoma. i repeat used to.
even the 700 club says cannabis shouldn’t be against the law http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/mar/12/pat-robertson-marijuana-message
if you drink any kind of booze you are a drunkard and you will not see his kingdom . even just a little bit. becarefull when you take that wine from the man in a robe. Jesus did say many would hear the truth but few would understand its true meaning.
let hope at least one more person becomes one of the “few”.
p.s. christ also said that any true follower of his would be able to preform all of the healing mericials of christ. i cured my fybro, i made the blind see. i’ve seen cannabis make the crippled walk. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpfK4VGD-NM
oh and sorry for the mis spells i got a nerulogical condition i live with. don’t like it either take it up with yahweh or call me the devils slurs in the name of christ . either way it doesn’t matter because i walk in his way
I think it should be compulsory for everyone to know everything this documentary talks about and explains! Will blow your mind
Good article….. I thank you for it. I have an issue right now with finding plants in my child’s home that he allowed my nephew to grow and I had been seeing signs of behavior problems in my grand daughter as well as changes in my son’s personality NOT FOR THE BEST. This has been one of their defenses and mine was always whether it was used or not, YOU AREN’T of THE PREISTHOOD! I have seen first hand all I need to know about this so called OK drug that everyone wants to make legal. Until now I didn’t know enough to get involved but Marijuana just made an enemy! YHWH bless for the article
For people attempting to use other peoples addiction as a justification to end marijuana use is completely futile. Smoking itself has negative effects on the body. If you ask a heroine addict if he’s smoked weed there is a possibility he would say yes. Yet, who was the one that made the decision to try heroine? Most likely it was more of a voluntary act unless he/she was put at gun-point. In the end, life is all about the choices you make and the consequences that follow each and every choice. You people are on each other about what’s right and what’s wrong, but you all live a life in both the wrong and right. So in the end, NONE of you have the right to be on each others a**. Grow-up and realize that life isn’t to be wasted on correcting others. A lot of you need a pretty big self-evaluation before getting on others. Why can’t we just all get along and live in a world of peace. Why don’t we put an end to GMOs and pesticides that kill our environment, which will eventually kill us all. THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK PEOPLE. The world will continue whether we die or live, but none of us will live if we don’t have a world to thrive on. And if anyone was wondering, I am 18. May peace and love overwhelm you all.
Do you even have any idea what you’re commenting on? It’s an article about whether or not the Bible supports the use of marijuana. If you read the article and then read our comments, you’ll see that yes, we feel that marijuana abuse is destructive, but you’ll also see that we condemn nobody for using it. That’s between them and God. In our experience, it’s destructive. That’s our opinion and we have our right to that. The opinion is based on personal experience so it’s real. I also work with at-risk teenagers and every year I watch them get started on their path to drugs with marijuana. I see them arrested because of it. I see them fail classes and drop out because of it. I see them turn against their parents. I’ve seen all that. I was just talking to an officer the other day who said, “It’s dangerous. Period. When you see a 15-year old shot in the head in the middle of the street over a bag of weed, you start changing your mind on such things.” But again, I don’t condemn you (or anyone else) for your use. If you feel secure in your relationship with Jesus when you’re high that’s your prerogative and more power to you.
The endocannabinoid system is a major regulator in the body implicated in almost all diseases including cancer.
Medical Marijuana prohibition is a crime against humanity and a violation of the religious precept – heal the sick.
By their works ye shall know them.
“When you see a 15-year old shot in the head in the middle of the street over a bag of weed, you start changing your mind on such things.”
But isn’t that caused by prohibition? Or were similar crimes in the 1920s caused by alcohol? Why did those crimes greatly decrease with the end of prohibition if alcohol was the cause? Did we see those crimes when cannabis was legal?
The mere mention of drugs seems to cloud people’s minds.
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Further – how can you be sure the effects you ascribe to cannabis are not the result of PTSD for which cannabis is medicinal. i.e. maybe child abuse is the problem. Or perhaps some other trauma.
The mere mention of drugs seems to cloud people’s minds.
Well as long as we are on to heroin perhaps some stats are in order. About 70% of female heroin users were sexually abused in childhood. For males the number is 50%.
http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/2004/09/heroin.html
It amazes me how many have such strong opinions about something they are so ignorant of.
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My take on drugs? People in chronic pain chronically take pain relievers.
Doesn’t that actually make sense?
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I can keep elephants off your streets almost all the time by outlawing them. Does that mean that the laws is actually working if you don’t see elephants on your streets? Or is it because of the rarity of elephants in the first place?
Well digest this. Before opiate prohibition 1.3% of the population used opiates “non medicinally”. With prohibition in place for 100 years 1.3% of the population uses opiates “non medicinally”. Are the laws really protecting you? Or are they in fact merely further abusing the already abused?
You seem to have enough info on the subject to get me lost…so what is the ingredient they are talking about then?
Mr.E I am a user of marijana. I don’t do anything else beside marijana. Other then drinking coffee.. Anyways I have to ask you just a few things. And make some points. First of all. How old are you?. And if you said there is no proof on what gods word has to say about marijana. Then how do you know what god says about marijana? You clearly speak for god through a alot of feed back you give people on there comments to you. There’s a lot of things that are bad for you. And something’s worse then others. I vaporize 100% of the time i do smoke marijana. So I don’t get any harmful chemicals from the smoke.. I go to church every Sunday. And I attend a weekly men’s group. I am deeply in love with my god above. And I’ve talked to my pastor on this subject. And he told me as long as marijana doesn’t make you oppose your love and faith in god, fills you heart with hatred or keeps you from spreading the word of god on to others. Then it’s fine because he could find anything in the bible that states marjiana is prohibited. Society has taught a lot people how bad marijana is for a really long time and at a time when societies were exploding and building. So of course you have your opinions and beliefs. And so do I. and I believe marijana is harmless compared to a lot of other things that are legal. And I believe since the bible doesn’t mention marijana. Then god really doesn’t care as long as you don’t cheat, steal, kill, lie, hurt, hate and believe in a false god. Just like he doesn’t care about a little wine. Which I hate alcohol.
Not only does the bible talk about marijuana, it also talks about entheogenic mushrooms. Manna. Yes, your lord and savior used hallucinogenic mushrooms. They all did. So did most religions that far outdate Christianity. So stop the hypocracy, stop judging people and stay true to the written words you worship so.
~Namaste
Marijuana is not a drug it is a herb. And lastly so as a man thinketh in his heart so shall it be, to those of you who think it’s a sin to use it so be it, and to us who believe God made it for us to use no sin is imputed to us.
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